Sept. 21, 2025

The Complete Paranormal Investigation Handbook w/Richard Palmisano & Peter J. Roe

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In this episode of ParaTruth: Reborn, Justin and Erik sit down with renowned investigators Richard Palmisano and Peter J. Roe to explore The Complete Paranormal Investigation Handbook. From ghostly encounters to tried-and-true investigative techniques, this conversation pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to research the unknown. Richard and Peter share their years of field experience, offering insights into evidence gathering, case management, and the ethics of working with clients who are experiencing paranormal phenomena. Whether you’re a curious listener, an aspiring investigator, or a seasoned researcher, this episode provides practical knowledge and chilling stories that bring the world of paranormal investigation to life.

Bios: Peter J. Ros is the assistant director of The Searcher Group (est. 1979), and he serves as director of its subdivision, Mortal Coil Paranormal. He regularly conducts research, promotes the Searcher Group's pro bono services, presents field discoveries, and advocates for vanishing heritage sites. Peter has appeared in a testimonial capacity over two seasons of the Travel Channel's 'Fear the Woods', and he is the author of 'Haunted Town Halls' (Quagmire Press, 2018).

Richard Palmisano launched the Searcher Group in 1979, making it Canada's oldest paranormal investigation company. In 2011, Richard founded the Canadian Institute of Parapsychology, dedicated to education regarding life after death, ghosts, and hauntings. Several of Richard's published works have been featured in nationally televised documentaries, and the Searcher Group has also been featured in the United Church Observer (now Broadview) and Reader's Digest.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/paratruth-reborn--6273542/support.

Thanks for listening!

WEBVTT

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Welcome, Well, go well do parah Truth.

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How's it going, Paratruthers, Welcome to another episode of Paratruth Reborn.

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This is a pre recorded show on one of seven

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point seven FM, New Orleans, one oh five point three

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FM on the Gulf Coast and United Public Radio Network.

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My name is Justin. I'm running solo today. Eric is

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on vacation, so I hope he gets rested and is

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ready for the next episode. Today, though, I am proud

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to bring on two great guys in the paranormal community,

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Richard Palomisano and Peter Rowe, and we're gonna be talking

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to them about the book, The Complete Paranormal Investigation Handbook.

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Peter is the assistant director of the Searcher Group and

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head of Mortal Coil Paranormal, a researcher author, an advocate

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for heritage preservation, wide appearances on the Travel Channel's Fear

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of the Woods. Richard is the founder of the Searcher

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Group and the Canadian Institute of Parapsychology and is a

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pioneer investigator whose work has been featured in national document

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documentaries and significant publication. Peter and Richard, Welcome to Paratruth reborn.

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Thank you justin.

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So what got you guys started in the paranormal and

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what made you want to write a book about doing

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paranormal investigation?

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We start with a founder.

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Well, I was born in a haunted house. So Warden

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Wright's Haunted House take my interest and started chasing it.

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And then when I came eighteen years old, I started

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the searchery group. When I was back in nineteen seventy nine,

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so uh forty six years, I guess, Peter, yeah, and

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past a part of me.

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Oh I got, I got to send into this today. Okay,

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now I'm playing the blame game already. All right, love it. Okay,

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I did not grow up in a haunted house. Part

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of me wishes I had, but I had a fascination

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with the subject from a very young age. I read

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every book I could get my hands on from our

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local library, and you know, scared the hell out of

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me then. But in later years, many decades later, when

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it started to appear on television investigations on television through

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most Haunted out of the UK and early two thousands,

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I thought, wow, people are actually doing this in real life,

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and so I started to look for a team that

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took the subject seriously.

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And wasn't into this.

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For a thrill, but I wanted to take it seriously

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and face a childhood fear at the same time. And

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I discovered Richard and the Searcher Group through one of

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Richard's books. His second book, Journeys into the Unknown, featured

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some theory that he put at the back the end

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of the chapters, and I thought, here's a guy who

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was thinking out of the box and thinking of new

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ways of tackling this issue. So I looked him up

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and we connected after that, and I was about two

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thousand and eight ish, I think, Okay, now.

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What made you guys want to actually write the book

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about it?

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All that came out of the pandemic?

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Okay, Uh, we were itching to get out there and

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use investigative work, and uh, you know what the pandemic

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going on, and it was just you know, fear and

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paranoia and nobody would open their doors to anybody, and

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so we we we concluded, well, we'd have to do

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a book, but what are we going to do? And

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then we determined, you know, we've been doing this for

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so long and we have all these secret ideas and theory. Decided, hey,

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let's let's why don't we do a book like this,

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So I'm.

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Yeah, that was like that was definitely part of the reason.

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And for me, well man, probably for us, we were

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sort of frustrated at not finding work as well, and

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and uh we we're a little upset with the prevalence

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of paranormal TV. How it's sort of you know, like

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saturated the markets, all these shows and whatnot, turning the

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lights out kind of thing, investigating in the dark, and

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all the thrill seeking type things that they do on television.

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And it was also born out of frustration as far

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as getting work here in Ontario anyway, it's very difficult

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to approach historic owners and managers, you know, properties like

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that without being lumped in with the thrill seeking groups

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that have cropped up because of television. So between us,

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we thought, well, yes, we should write a book and

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we've got some material to share, as Richards had our techniques,

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but this might be our proactive way of getting everybody

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on the same page by sharing how we have success

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doing this stuff and hopefully the teams that are out

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there already. You know, we can't change the number of

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teams that are out there, but hopefully some of them

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will pick up the book and inspire by the content,

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and hopefully we can all raise the bar of you know,

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true investigation together and communicate and compare notes and move

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move forward.

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Well, I really appreciate that you guys came out with

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this because Eric, my co host, and I have been

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talking about doing it for years, because I mean, there's

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obviously plenty of books out there about doing paranormal investigations

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and things like that, but it's one of those things

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that we wished we would have had somebody to teach

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us how to do the right things right off the bat, because,

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like you said, we basically learned off of the ghost

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hunting shows, like doing investigations at night and all this stuff.

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And one of the first things we kind of started

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doing was just adventuring into public haunted locations during the

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day because more public locations you can't do at night.

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So it's like you're you're really discovering all this stuff

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all on the fly. So since then, you know, since

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coming up with the book and all that, how did

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you own investiga or how did your own investigative experience

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shape the content in the book?

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A great deal actually, because we're you know, we with

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Over the years, we developed specific techniques and UH and

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methodologies and we're if you think about a good basis

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for the book was we we've been very successful and

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a lot of the techniques that we've developed and if

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you can imagine how many teams are out there, I

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mean they arranged in the tens of thousands. Mm hmm.

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What we're trying to do is is cut out that

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middle man, right, why reinvent the wheel? If we're having

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success with certain techniques here they are you don't have

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adam and you know, uh, they should work for you

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as they've worked for us, and that cuts out a

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lot of afric amount of time if you're if you're

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if you're new into the field and you're going out

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there to do this work, Well, here's a shortcut instead

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of you know, trial and error, trial and error because

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access to a place is difficult. So if you're doing

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trial and error, it could be it could take years

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to finally get to where where we are. We're just

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giving you that shortcut and we're hoping that you know,

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you find that success as well.

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Okay, now you mentioned that you started the group in

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nineteen seventy nine. How difficult was that back then compared

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to today.

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It was a double edged sort. On one side, there

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was a lot of a lot of people that appreciated

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what I was doing, and on the other side was

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the I'm going to call them the laughing skeptic. So

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I had to deal with both parties. And I come

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from a security law enforcement back round on that okay,

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thirty seven years of it. So as as time rolled in,

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I became the guy. So if you know, I worked

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within government institutions, large corporations, and these places have problems

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as well mhm, but they don't like to talk about it.

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So I became the guy because I was I could

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I could keep a secret, I could uh keep keep

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what was going on quiet, so that I was brought

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into places that nobody else would even know about to

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have a look. And usually I just wanted to know,

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is there a problem? Is is a reason to be worried?

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Can you talk to our security staff because they're afraid

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to come to work and you're trying to aleviate those

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situations and mitigate that problem for them m hm. When

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I became known in that field, and uh so we'll

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get invited to places that nobody, nobody else does so

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and that, you know, that was a big part. When

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we we did the book on the Canadian National Exhibition.

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It started off with a small conversation they said, having

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noticing some ghosts of the activity, very similar or to

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what was in my second book, which I called the Party,

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where there's a you know, clinking of glasses and laughter

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and music and loud conversation. And I've noticed this a

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few places, and they've noticed it in their building for

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one of their buildings, and they said, you want to

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have a look. I didn't know at that moment that

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when they said you want to have a look, that

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I was being brought in to investigate all the buildings

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and property coming out of look nice. And then I

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did go and have a look, and they said, well

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this is really interesting. I'd like man, I'd like to

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do a bigger investigation. And the curator looked at me

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and said, well I thought you were okay. And that

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turned into the like now, I think it was thirteen

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months then we saw it just about every inch of

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the place. I sent two buildings we couldn't get into

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because they were privately least. But you know, that was

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a huge job.

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M So in your guys' opinion. What separates a credible

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paranormal investigation from one that isn't.

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Well, it's the integrity grant. It's just you know, doing

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the right thing, whether somebody's watching or not, you know,

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and being able to say you were wrong. I mean,

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you know, I can't count how many times I was.

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I've been wrong, you know, to make your best guess,

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and you know, six months into the investigation, you go, wow,

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I was dumb. So when you learn from from those errors,

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and that's you know, and because you learn from them,

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then you could take the proper path and maybe come

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to some you know, better conclusions and something that you

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know makes sense. But we're all going to be making mistakes.

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And if you know I'm right and breaks, well, then

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you're fudging it, right, Yeah, doesn't have a good way

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of putting it. That's how you learn. Yeah, you know,

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that's how we learned. I mean, you know, stuff's gonna

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go bo. Yeah, I don't know how much you know.

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I get and sort of like the Wilie Coyote, Right,

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I get this crazy idea about a theory and and

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I used to have a good buddy get access to

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to electronics lab and we say, hey, I got this

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theory and I need this piece of equipment it doesn't exist,

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and he build it for me right cost, and then

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it didn't work. So you know that's education is expensive, right, Yeah,

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to try it. That's how how we wear. We try

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stuff and it's either does you have there it does bad?

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So right.

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Peter, Oh, I just I'll ride Richard's cottails on this

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one as far as as far as the integrity goes. Ah, well,

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right now, I'm thinking of a local group in our

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town we have on Facebook. There's a local it's called

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Tell and Sell, and people can usually sell stuff in town,

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you know, used items, et cetera. But once in a

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while you have announcements by people who live in town

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sharing a project that they're working on. And recently there

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was a post for a local a local place that

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used to house Armenian boys in the early twentieth century

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and after the Armenian genocide. And I remember trying to

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get into that place myself to you know, to do

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an investigation, and and was sort of put off. This

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is years ago, and all of a sudden this post

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comes up saying, hey, I want your stories. Our group

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is going in there. For a television show kind of thing.

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And I thought, oh my gosh, if anyone can you know,

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could please stop and look at our manual first. There

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there's that person. Because my point is a professional wouldn't

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advertise what they're doing ahead of time. They wouldn't say, Hey,

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we're going into this place and tell the world even

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if you were looking for stories, don't tell them. Don't

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tell the public that it's for a paranormal investigation. Just

226
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ask for stories. But they just just had to splash

227
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.559
their I don't want to say their ego or their whatever,

228
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their their name out there as a paranormal group. Hey, look,

229
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.600
you know this is what we're doing, and we that's

230
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something we will not do. We'll never do that. Everything

231
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.039
is by the book, as I've learned through working with

232
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.679
Richard and the Searcher Group, safety and confidentiality or number one.

233
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If two things can be number one, they are and

234
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there's you know, it's all in the book. It's you know,

235
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:10.799
there's there's a method to doing this confidentially, respectfully and

236
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.759
safely for clients and and the team. So I think

237
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:17.679
that's a long answer to your question about you know,

238
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:22.399
sort of what differentiates maybe between you know, professionals or

239
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.440
people trying to do as professional a job as they

240
00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.840
can and thrill seeking group.

241
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.919
Right, well, and I'm glad glad you guys bring up both,

242
00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:37.320
you know, admitting your mistake but also working smart and safe.

243
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:42.000
Because when we first started doing investigations, we were actually

244
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:47.159
invited to go do an investigation at a business and

245
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:54.679
we caught a picture and thought it was something. We

246
00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.000
thought it looked like it was almost looked like it

247
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:02.440
kind of like a grim reaper type image to us,

248
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.599
and so we presented it to the client just like, here,

249
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.200
we've caught this. We can't explain what it is, but

250
00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:12.519
it very much looks like a skeleton or a reaper

251
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.640
or something. And then years later, my cousin decided to

252
00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.279
run stuff that we have done in the past through

253
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.799
the more updated filters and stuff. He went to school

254
00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.400
for cinematography, so he's been able to identify a lot

255
00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.039
of stuff a lot easier. And he texts me and

256
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.880
he goes, yeah, you know that thing that we thought

257
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.519
was a grim reaper, it was a bush in the office.

258
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And of course we didn't have contact with the client anymore,

259
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so we couldn't say, hey, whoops. But We've admitted it

260
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.359
on the show multiple times, so if they've seen the show,

261
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.400
we're totally sorry that he came up with that.

262
00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:01.480
But that's the learning part, right, It's easy to do.

263
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.960
It's uh all right. I remember working.

264
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:04.640
Uh.

265
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.640
I was working a late night shift. I was working

266
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:12.000
on at a government facility. I was all by my shelf. Uh.

267
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:14.640
You know, I'm sitting there about a wall of monitors,

268
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.680
like sixty five cameras to watch. It's a blizzard outside.

269
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.079
It's like three in the morning, and all of a sudden,

270
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.920
I see these three things standing outside. They're just shimmering

271
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.599
moving around in a mile. What the heck is that?

272
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:33.079
And I and of course I gotta go luk, right,

273
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:35.359
so I go out and look and it was just

274
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:40.440
three patuo umbrellas that were closed. The snow belt up

275
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:42.519
on them and they were moving in the wind. But

276
00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:47.160
you know, on camera, it was like that's uh, I'd

277
00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:52.920
rather got them before they got me, right, so uh,

278
00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.960
And I'll admit it. Yeah, you make mistakes, you see

279
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.640
stuff that's like but uh yeah, and that's why we

280
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:01.440
like this, you know, we'd like to take if you're

281
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.079
taking pictures, take a whole bunch. Yeah, we come out

282
00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:06.880
of places and we've got four or five hundred and

283
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:13.319
four graves to go through and m nothing on them. Video. Yeah,

284
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.839
but we try and shoot the same image over and over. Yeah,

285
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.160
we you know, it may looks different in one photo,

286
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:23.960
but then you've got your control photos compare them and

287
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.200
say is it different or is it the same or

288
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:29.359
is it you know, is it the lighting or is

289
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.160
it r right? Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a

290
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.079
lot of work. People, A lot of people don't realize

291
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.839
how much work goes into this. I mean, just to

292
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:43.079
analyze audio video right when you're running through or four

293
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:45.480
cameras for eight hours, so a lot of hours to

294
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.400
go through. Can't just fool through it and hope, wow,

295
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.920
you know something kind of pop out. No, and thank god,

296
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.400
my brother does most of the the analysis, and you

297
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.920
guys are on a big screen TV with's a round sounds.

298
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.359
I mean, neighbors hate him because you know, you've got

299
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.039
some ghostly stuff happening and it's like in your face

300
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.920
right right. He loves it, he uh he uh, you

301
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.559
know he'll call me and see, oh my god, you

302
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.960
just I just heard that you got coming here over

303
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.400
there and look at it or listen to it. He

304
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.359
wants to be that pioneer to hear it first.

305
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.599
Mm hmm. Well he has caught some amazing evidence through

306
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:30.680
the years.

307
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:39.920
Okay, now there's tons of equipment tools from simple to advanced.

308
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:44.440
What kind of technology or tools do you guys find

309
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:49.200
truly useful versus it's just a hype thing where people

310
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:50.680
are just trying to sell something to you.

311
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.160
Going to uh, well he use of why writing of stuff? Right?

312
00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:02.079
Going back to Harry Price, right, baby powder, motion to

313
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.559
sensors or trip wires.

314
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:11.319
Or are you up to uh what's that a string

315
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:17.039
of bells? Yeah, tape on the door. Yeah, it's what

316
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.240
works for you. I don't I don't have any time

317
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:24.759
for stuff like the obelisk mm hmm. You know things

318
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:27.559
like that the flashlight trick where you sort of loosen

319
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:31.240
the ball and you make that that's been debunked.

320
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.599
Yeah, I just I just don't have time for that

321
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:35.680
sort of stuff. I like to deal more of the

322
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:41.200
hard science stuff. You know. Goss Meters are great, but

323
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.680
they're they're usually uh, single access. I like trimeters. We're

324
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:50.640
good rings from the whole area, no gay right. I

325
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:57.480
like to do comparisons from a gossmere too to try

326
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.240
field mirrors are a natural try filled meter rent a

327
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:09.240
subtle energies. And I don't even compare that to a

328
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.319
simple compass where we've done that in a number of

329
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.680
places where the company is it's just spinning like a

330
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:24.599
like a rotor blade. Oh wow, Well what does it mean? Rights,

331
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:28.039
It's great to catch this phenomena, but what does it mean?

332
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.480
And this is this is then you've got to start

333
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.359
collecting all the data, like while that was happening, what

334
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:38.519
else was happening? Was there a temperature change? Was there

335
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.799
sound or is there any vibrations going on? Was there

336
00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.400
you know, was there any DP happening? Was there? Right?

337
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.440
So you want to collect this munch data and then

338
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.960
see what connect the dots, because usually one phenomena doesn't

339
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.359
happen at that time. It's usually a whole pile of

340
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.319
phenomenon only focused on that one thing. That's really cool.

341
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:05.039
You have to have it all to get the big picture.

342
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:10.880
And I'll give you some idea of what the attributes

343
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:17.039
of the ghost are because they're removed from the physical,

344
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.519
but they still have attributes. There's still something about them

345
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:23.519
m hm. And it's got to be complex. So the

346
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:28.279
more complex, the more little tweaks and phenomena is going

347
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.680
to occur when they're around. So it's the same as

348
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.920
a human when when I'm around you know, I'm around

349
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.440
r I don't want to make noise. I got to leave

350
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.119
a sign somewhere. You know, I'm going to do something.

351
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:46.559
Right, Okay, mm hmm. If I could jump on that.

352
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.400
As far as the gadgets that are sort of being

353
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.079
sold for being gadgets, I'm going to bring up the

354
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.279
portal or what's called the portal, which is the modified

355
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:03.160
spirit box. Yeah, there's being they're being sold as a

356
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.400
device that it's like a spirit box, but chock full

357
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:13.359
of filters to filter out junk noise, voices you you

358
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.799
don't want to hear kind of thing. And I admit

359
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.880
they sound creepy as hell on take TV shows and stuff.

360
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:25.319
And they're usually sold in like repurposed radio boxes that

361
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:26.640
you can get at the shrift store, and you know,

362
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.519
they got the the interior out and put the device

363
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.480
in it and it's made out of wood and they

364
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:35.359
stick you know, little lights around the outside and what Okay,

365
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.559
great for a visual maybe great for television. Creepy as

366
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:40.599
hell you know, when the voices come out and going whoa,

367
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.599
you know, stuff like that. And yeah, and it's left

368
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.400
for interpretation. But I do mention this in the book.

369
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.200
We have a section on equipment that we would recommend

370
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.200
highly and others to stay away from.

371
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:55.359
In a portal is one of.

372
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:03.000
Them, precisely for the reason that as investigators, people who

373
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:05.880
depend on them or trust in them, that you're putting

374
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:10.599
your trust in that there's a filter in there that's

375
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.279
you know, somebody has told you that these filters are

376
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.599
getting rid of junk messages, Well who were they to say,

377
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:22.039
what's junk? You know, you could be missing some really

378
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.240
interesting data just because somebody's version of you know, junk

379
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.240
seems useless to them. So yeah, anyway, I explained myself

380
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:37.079
better in the book, and and I advocate for you know,

381
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.279
doing the work. If and if you're going to have,

382
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.519
say a spirit box session with an old fashioned spirit box,

383
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.359
which is our you know, we think is probably the

384
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:50.240
closest thing we have to real time communication for those

385
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.359
of us who aren't psychic. And just when you're listening

386
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.960
back to to the to those recordings of those sessions,

387
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.559
you know, like take the time and and don't you know,

388
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.599
like dismiss every sound that comes out of the box.

389
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:08.720
There might be not necessarily responses to the investigators questions

390
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:11.319
one hundred percent of the time, but we'll catch and

391
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.359
I've caught many times conversations in the background going between

392
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.359
people talking about us or referring to us, or telling

393
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:20.440
us to shut up, and that kind of thing. And

394
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.279
a portal, I'm afraid would probably you'd.

395
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:25.039
Lose all that you lose all that data.

396
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.160
And uh and again that that's you know, if you

397
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:33.559
if you're missing it, then you're missing part of the

398
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.839
the the clues that that we're that we're looking at

399
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.960
looking for when we're doing this work.

400
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.480
Right, well, and I have used a portal, you know,

401
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:48.599
I've also used just the spirit box, and yeah, the

402
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:53.759
portal is fun just to play with, but yeah, you're

403
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:56.680
you're losing that white noise a lot of times. And

404
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.680
it is believed that that's what spirits are using, is

405
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.359
the way noise, not just pulling something from the broadcasts.

406
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:08.359
So that's right, right, it's a carrier wave, right, yes,

407
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:11.160
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I find uh, you know, I

408
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.039
I've seen people use them and and uh, I'm sort

409
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.119
of yeah, how much. Was that a few hundred dollars?

410
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:24.559
I don't know anyway, have that man? Enjoy it? Great conversation, Pete, right, yeah,

411
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:25.920
but yeah it's hard.

412
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:27.799
That looked nice on the shelf.

413
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:35.160
Yeah, yeah, no, it's creepy. It's yeah.

414
00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:40.920
Now, how do you guys approach cases where there's families

415
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.480
or or clients that are frightened by the activity.

416
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.359
Carefully?

417
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:48.359
Go ahead?

418
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.400
Oh no, go ahead? No, I was so that was

419
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:52.480
my one line.

420
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:56.480
If it's if it's a couple saying or a couple,

421
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:01.599
then that's completely different. And if it's a family unit

422
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:06.039
with children, you know, if they've got children, then you

423
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.119
can get guy going with the kid gloves han and

424
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:14.279
no pun intended, but and and deal with it, uh hm,

425
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:21.759
smarter and a little softer. You still have to interview

426
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:24.599
the kids. What do you want to do it in

427
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:27.839
the way that it's not going to frighten them, So

428
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.960
it's just having a conversation because you have to know

429
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:37.000
if they're if they're being uh witness to phenomena, or

430
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.240
they're being attacked, or if they're being bothered, or maybe

431
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:46.039
they're the entity's friendly with them and maybe not friendly

432
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:51.599
with the parents or the dog so you do have

433
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.200
to interview all of them. Uh, and then you have

434
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:57.359
to deturb on what's going on in their point of view.

435
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.880
And it doesn't mean it's a paranormal situation. Right. You

436
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:07.799
need to get in there and and really find out. Yeah,

437
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:13.359
if there's something naturally occurring that's causing this fun right, right,

438
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:20.400
you know, poor wiring, or there's a slight ghastly in

439
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:24.920
the firmness or infrasound or you know, you have to

440
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:30.599
you have to take out all these different phenomena. Right,

441
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.440
do they have rodents or raccoons or they So once

442
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.039
you want to it's like a home inspectrum actually, and

443
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.720
you need to go in and find out what's happening

444
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.559
and what's not And you have to go through a

445
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:50.200
gigantic checklist and say, okay, this is you know, there's

446
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:52.839
no ghastly, there's no mold, there's no infrasound, there's no

447
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.759
the wiring is great. Uh, there's no rodents or raccoons,

448
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.359
there's nothing in the attic. Once you start removing the

449
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:08.559
natural causes, you know, what you're left with could possibly

450
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:14.440
be paranormal. And that's when you start your paranormal investigation. Uh, neuralways.

451
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:15.599
Simply start with a.

452
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:17.680
H. E.

453
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:23.160
D P collection. I'm trying to communicate with it, and

454
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.440
then we'll escalated from there if depending on the results,

455
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.039
what are we getting, Is there any activity? Are we

456
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:34.200
witnessing anything as well? Can we verify with what the

457
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:37.640
people are telling us? And if so, then we bring

458
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:42.400
in an audio video surrounds. That's our workhorse, playing and

459
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:46.759
symbol that's the workforce for an company. Mm hmmm. We

460
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.079
like to move the family out of the out of

461
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.400
the area. You know, you go to a restaurant or

462
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:59.279
go visit your family or friends somewhere, and we'll saturate

463
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:02.519
the building with audio videos. We'll go in and talk

464
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:07.480
about them, maybe even skeptically about them, like they I

465
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.519
don't purely believe they exist. I think it's nonsense, and

466
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.160
get them riled up, and we'll go to a coffee

467
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:19.359
shop for half an hour or so. I leave the

468
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:25.279
building completely empty, lock it up and it's empty, and

469
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:31.880
the audio videos working while we're gone, and nine out

470
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:37.960
of ten times we'll get a conversation going on about us. Yeah,

471
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:39.960
in an empty house.

472
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:41.440
That's incredible.

473
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.319
Yeah, and uh, and that's really our workhorse. We've been

474
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:50.160
we've been using them for decades and it's very successful. Mhm.

475
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:55.440
And and the intelligence you gain from that is because

476
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.799
they're very social and they'll talk and they'll use each

477
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:02.359
other's names, like we do. You take it home and

478
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.839
you review it and you go, oh, Jeff's there, and

479
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.200
I don't know who is Rebecca is? And now you've

480
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.039
got names, So that's twofold. You can go back and

481
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:16.720
talk to them using their names, and they're like, what

482
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:20.720
right is You've got names? Now to go into the

483
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.680
history of the place and see if these people ever

484
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:30.119
existed on that property, So that intelligence becomes very valuable.

485
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.039
And yes, that's how we how we work.

486
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:41.119
Okay, now, I'm sure I probably know the answer to this,

487
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.799
but you brought up debunking. Have you ever had to

488
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.799
debunk an entire case where someone is swearing that it's

489
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:51.799
paranormal activity, they won't let up, and how did you

490
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.079
guys handle that when something like that happens.

491
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:57.640
I don't think in the history I've been with a group.

492
00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.359
I don't think I've been around for a fleet de

493
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.359
bunking at all been very successful.

494
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.960
Yeah, the only place where we debunked and it wasn't

495
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.039
a home there was a road. It was called ghost

496
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:16.240
road man okay, And the old legend law was if

497
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.240
you sat on this road in the middle of the night,

498
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:21.200
you looked down this road, you could see all of

499
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.000
a sudden the head light come out of nowhere and

500
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.960
it was, you know, the guy that died on his

501
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.799
motorcycle come up the road. That was That was the legend.

502
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.759
And so we went down there and uh, we set

503
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:42.079
up pitch black, creepy area, and we saw the headlight

504
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:44.480
came out of nowhere just all of a sudden. I

505
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:49.240
was there and then it went away, and I would, man,

506
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:55.039
it looked pretty creepy, you know. Uh, if it wasn't me,

507
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:59.200
I'd be absolutely convinced there's morecycle guys coming down the road.

508
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:03.839
But it didn't set well, and so some of the

509
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.279
team members took their car. We got a couple of

510
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:11.679
cars and they drove way down the end and there

511
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.280
was a crossroad at the end of this ghost road.

512
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:18.639
And what was happening. Cars would come up this road

513
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.920
and there was a posted signed it was sixty kilometers

514
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:26.159
and were facing that cross road, but it was loose.

515
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.360
The boats were halfway out and it was shimmer in

516
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.519
the wind. And it would pick up the headlights coming

517
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:37.719
up along the crossroad and fire that light down ghost

518
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.079
road and I'm like, whoa, there's a light. And then

519
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:45.360
it become yeah because the car gots so they had radios,

520
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.880
we had radios, and they said, oh wait, do you

521
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.639
see them oborcycle guy in their flashing their high games

522
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.559
up a crossroad at this sign and we're like yeah.

523
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:55.480
And then they turned the light out. They said, did

524
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.480
it go away? Yep, So we started to bunt that.

525
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.119
But the funny thing was one of the guys in

526
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:06.360
the car, he had his music on the on the

527
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:15.440
car radio and uh, something something unseen came by and

528
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:17.559
pounded on the car because I guess they didn't like

529
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:22.119
a music player right there. Yes, so it's haunted, but

530
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:29.480
not by the motorcycle guy. Okay, so yeah, so it's fun. Yeah.

531
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:35.159
Didn't you discover that there was an indigenous pathway that area?

532
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:40.239
Yeah, it used to be an indigenous a way they

533
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:46.840
used to Yeah, it quite possibly been, uh you know,

534
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.000
and that's one of the meetings felt that it was

535
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.760
indigenous and they just didn't appreciate the noise. No, no,

536
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.559
I agree should have been. And then the guy who

537
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:03.239
was young and all right.

538
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.199
Well, playing off of off of that question, have you

539
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.199
ever faced a situation during an investigation that made you

540
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.000
consider abandoning the case?

541
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.199
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

542
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:20.559
Richard's fifth book, Meeting Place of the Dead, documents that, okay,

543
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.960
quite well, And that was the case that I was

544
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.760
a part of. I wasn't for the ghost I wasn't

545
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:31.119
there for the ghost road debunking. But it's hard to

546
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.960
summarize it, but it basically it took place just outside

547
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:37.920
of the town I live in, so it was very

548
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.760
close to home. And Richard and I were invited to

549
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:44.400
this place after a presentation at a historical society and

550
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:49.280
this woman brought us a photo of a small cottage

551
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:53.760
like establishment on a rural property with the barn out back.

552
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:57.000
And this photo was taken by the Google street car.

553
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.440
And she said, she said, what do think of this?

554
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:03.920
And standing in front of this house was a woman

555
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.000
in period clothing with no face looking at the camera.

556
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.400
So she said what she said? There was nobody living

557
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:12.599
there at the time, so are you interested? So we said,

558
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:18.119
of course. Anyway, long story short, we investigated this place

559
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.800
for about about a year and a half Richard, yeah, roughly,

560
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:28.440
and it was like Grand Central Station as far as

561
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:32.440
we could not get a bead on an era. We

562
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.000
would run into different kinds of kinds of entities almost

563
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:40.639
every other visit, and then they started getting nasty. Each

564
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:43.519
member of the group was visited at their home, and

565
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:46.880
we all lived in different localities. I think there were

566
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:51.639
five of us, five or six of us, and each

567
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:55.239
of us or their spouses or kids had a visitation.

568
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:59.880
And then on the site itself, Richard and I were kicked.

569
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.920
Paul kept on Paul, the surveillance analysts. He would suddenly

570
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.039
have vertigo and and and tumble downstairs, you know, just

571
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:11.519
out of the blue. We had a medium that was

572
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.039
choked one one evening and we just come back from

573
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:17.199
one of those breaks after leaving the security or the

574
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:21.679
surveillance cameras going, and we'd just come back from dinner

575
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:26.119
and the medium was choked from behind, brought to tears,

576
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.559
and uh, anyway, to round things up, Richard had to, uh,

577
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:35.760
you know, you've seen similar kinds of malevolent stuff before

578
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:38.800
in the past, and and so we just had to

579
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:40.480
go to the client and say, you know, we're gonna

580
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:44.559
have to call it quits because if we push too far,

581
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.199
somebody's really going to get hurt and no idea how

582
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.559
how far could go. So yeah, that's one experience so

583
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:55.519
I've that I've had with the group anyway, as far

584
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.760
as having to call it quits for safety for safety reasons.

585
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:06.760
Way, my favorite, one absolutely favorite was we were I

586
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.960
was working on a book for at an old mansion

587
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.440
and they had an old farmhouse across the streak and

588
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:18.960
they were connected in history, but uh through the spirits

589
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.480
as well. They were both connected, they had so we

590
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:26.400
would take turns looking either at the mansion or this,

591
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:30.639
this old farmhouse and this, but they go right. Uh,

592
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.159
I just couldn't get the team together, so I brought

593
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.760
I brought one person and then the guy I know

594
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:41.679
he dabbles in film and he likes to do film

595
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.239
directing and stuff. Yeah, he said, what are you working?

596
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:45.880
I told him, can I come out?

597
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.719
Sure?

598
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.800
So it was just three of us. So we went

599
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.320
in and it was it was a hard location of work.

600
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.760
I think they had two plug outlets that worked in

601
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:01.480
the entire house, so uh, I was using one for

602
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.599
surveillance equipment and stuff like that. So we took a break.

603
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:09.840
It was probably I don't know, eleven maybe eleven thirty

604
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:16.960
and it's a big it's a big, big home and

605
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.360
foremost and it's all boarded up, boarded up for more

606
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.320
than a decade. And so we went outside for a break.

607
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:29.519
We're standing on a front lawn, it's dark, snowbody around quiet.

608
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.639
All of a sudden, I hear this knocking on the

609
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.920
on one of the plywood over the windows inside the house,

610
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:44.559
and we're probably about twenty feet back from those drink

611
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.360
and at the other end of those we start earing

612
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:56.679
banging from inside the dogs and then upstairs banging. The

613
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:59.360
next thing you know, it's like there's twenty people in there,

614
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.280
all pounding on the on the inside of the plywood

615
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:07.440
and the doors, and the it's getting louder and louder

616
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.960
and louder. All of a sudden, there says a woman's

617
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:14.480
scream from inside the house, and everything goes dead quiet.

618
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:20.199
And the funny thing is that the director guy looks

619
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.320
at me and he goes, is that normal? I said, yeah,

620
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.920
the houses do that. But I had calculating the value

621
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.199
of the equipment that's in the house because I'm not

622
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:33.639
going to get it. We called it a night, got

623
00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:35.760
in the cars, left the equipment and everything. It just

624
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:39.639
went home. That was uh, you know, my God said

625
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.480
this is not the time to go back in. So yeah,

626
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.559
but that was that was one of my It wasn't

627
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:53.239
the greatest moment, but it was the yeah the equipment,

628
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:54.719
Yeah I can get more equipment.

629
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:58.960
Yeah, at least you you were around to uh to

630
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.719
tell that story, right. Who knows what would have happened

631
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:05.440
if you didn't go back. I did retrieve that equipment.

632
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:09.239
I did finish that investigation, but not that particular.

633
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:14.679
But well, I have to listen, trust your gut because

634
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.320
sleep he's all off.

635
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:19.960
Yeah, go with your gut, because oh yeah, there's man

636
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:23.239
a lot of times I didn't, and I you regret

637
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:26.199
those moments. Well, on the other end, the you if

638
00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:28.559
I have family, A family called me and they said, oh,

639
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:34.280
we're having almost terrible ghostly phenomena. We're scared, and they

640
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.639
mentioned the demon word. And I'm like, mhm, said right,

641
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:39.920
all right, So.

642
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:44.719
If people tend to forget you're an investigator and they're

643
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:47.920
calling you into their house and you're going to look around,

644
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:50.920
you're going to investigate, right. The first thing I noticed

645
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.360
when I came in, I'm interviewing, I'm I'm walking around

646
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:57.599
and I asked him. He said, so, do you guys

647
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:02.119
normally have an interest in the parent normal? No, you

648
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.320
watch shows on it or anything, or like you get

649
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:10.320
any ideas about this? No? No, Well hold on the man.

650
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:12.960
You have an entire bookshelf here at Karen Normal and

651
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:17.000
Witchcraft and spell Casting. You have a Ouiji bar here.

652
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.599
I thought you weren't having no interest. Oh oh yeah,

653
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:24.519
well that's yeah. You know, at that point, I'm not

654
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.880
really interested because if you're going to be lying about.

655
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.679
It, right, how are we going to get to the truth?

656
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.920
Right? I just say, you know, I think there's probably

657
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:42.039
another team that can help it. But I don't think. Mmmm, well.

658
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:53.960
Thanks log yep this or this? Ah.

659
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.440
Now what lessons or skills do you hope new investigators

660
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:00.639
take away from from this book?

661
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:07.639
Well, I I'm hoping that they'll take away they'll recognize

662
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.719
the advice or the the techniques that are shared in

663
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:12.719
this book and.

664
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:17.880
Look at them and give them a try. And uh

665
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.480
as I said, uh as, I tried to say up

666
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.280
their game and and sort of media at the same

667
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.880
level of accomplishment and using these techniques. Really, it's uh

668
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.519
we're hoping, uh, you know, to put a positive spin

669
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:37.199
on this manual. It's it's to bring bring up the

670
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:42.960
game universally, I guess, nationally, and start a conversation between

671
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:47.840
teams instead of competition between teams and getting them getting

672
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:50.800
likes on YouTube and whatnot and trying to get a

673
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.400
television show of their own, you know, use these techniques

674
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:59.679
that are in the book, and let's compare notes and

675
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.119
try each other's experiments and say what works and what

676
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:05.000
doesn't work. And if you have theories of your own

677
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.880
that you want to share, we want to hear them. Likewise,

678
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:10.360
if you have if you don't agree with some of

679
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.880
the theories that that Richard and the Searcher Group Think

680
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.800
think Tank have come up with, tell us why, like

681
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:18.800
what what doesn't work for you, and let's have a

682
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:24.559
talk about it. So hopefully the manual will will be

683
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.440
an invitation for that kind of conversation to get started.

684
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:33.199
Okay, just just be you know, and when you're dealing

685
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.880
with the client or whoever you're working with, whether it's

686
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.679
working with anybody or you might just have access to

687
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:44.559
a property, you know, be respectful, be pleasant to book,

688
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:51.400
be a professional, and always be honest. You know, I

689
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:57.000
people shake their head as an author. Authors are usually

690
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.079
protective and secretive, and they don't want to tell you

691
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:04.159
anything till the book's out and the books out and go, okay,

692
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:10.880
I can talk about it. I will write the entire manuscript.

693
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:16.079
And I've been you know other authors just shake your

694
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.599
head to me. I'll take a manuscript back to the

695
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.199
client and say here it is, have a read of.

696
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:26.079
It before it even goes to the publisher, because I

697
00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:28.320
want to make sure I'm not saying something that's going

698
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:32.000
to startle them or embarrass them or give away the

699
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:34.719
cat brace to be great, right, I want to make

700
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:35.719
sure they're comfortable.

701
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:41.559
And then if they'd say, oh, that's great, off to

702
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:46.599
the publisher posts and why not. It's it's an honest

703
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:50.880
it's an honest way to do things right. I want

704
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:53.559
to feel like I'm pulling some some wool over the

705
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:57.000
client's eyes and doing something behind their pack, because that's

706
00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:01.239
not what this is about. Right, above board and honest

707
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:07.840
and transparent. Just what happened, and there it is, right,

708
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.039
and it's all about you or your house or your

709
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:13.159
family or whatever it is. So you need to be

710
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:13.920
comfortable with it.

711
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:20.079
And and that's how you build relationships and that's how

712
00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:24.079
you build trust within a community, right, because that word

713
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:24.679
gets a wrong.

714
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:31.840
Not as quick as if you do something wrong. Yeah,

715
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:36.440
So you do something wrong, own it, right, I'll fix this,

716
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:40.599
make sure you fix it, because it's truly about building

717
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:44.320
those relationships, and those relationships will trust and not look

718
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:48.840
at you in the door faster than it has. So.

719
00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.360
Yeah, thanks to the reputation that Richard has built over

720
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:56.440
the years through a lot of hard work and reputable work,

721
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:00.760
We've been fortunate to just been handed the key to

722
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.079
a couple of places. When I began the what I

723
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:10.800
call the Townhole town Hall tour in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen,

724
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.719
you know, I just I approached a local town hall

725
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:20.400
caretaker and he said, here's like, here's the key, have

726
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:22.280
that kind of thing, and he had you didn't even

727
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.440
want to be there for the investigation. And that's that's

728
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:29.159
that kind of trust and reputational that Richard's put a

729
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.360
lot of hard work into establishing.

730
00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:37.519
Right. Yeah, And then you know it's and you know

731
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.559
how to read people, Ryan Gary, like are they nervous

732
00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:42.320
about something? What are they nervous about?

733
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:43.159
Mind you?

734
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:48.840
And try and mitigate it and alleviate those problems, and

735
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:53.159
you know they once they probably trust uh you know,

736
00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:58.639
I mean even funny stuff comes out of that. Well.

737
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.679
I did a huge shaw for the for one of

738
00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:07.000
our municipalities down here in the city. It's a large city, Mississauga.

739
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:12.840
Now we were cadillacing historically owned properties that the city owned.

740
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:18.519
It was a huge job. Took ten months, you know,

741
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.119
we got we got to be done. And so there's

742
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:27.239
this one manchionoda in the lake. It's uh they use

743
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.079
it as a music conservatory right now, and it's quiet,

744
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:34.480
it's after hours, it's locked up. So I was waiting

745
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:36.760
for corporate security to come by and unlock the door.

746
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.280
So we go in a book and we're just sitting there.

747
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:42.000
You know. The next neighbor is probably half a mile

748
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.360
away from there, and this cop car comes in and

749
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:47.559
parks right behind us, and he's walking at us, and

750
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:49.239
he's like, what are these guys. There's told a bunch

751
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.320
of guys in this car. It's late at night. What

752
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:55.880
are they doing back here? So I said, okay, I

753
00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:57.679
gotta So I jumped out of the car and I

754
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.719
walked over and he's like nervous. He's looking at me, like,

755
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:03.079
what's this guy doing there. So I came over and

756
00:50:03.079 --> 00:50:05.320
I pulled out my card. I said, hey, you probably

757
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:09.440
went all we're doing here? Gave him the card paranormal investigator.

758
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.679
We're going into that. It's called the atoms AND's a state.

759
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:15.000
So pulling in into the estate, they are just waiting

760
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.800
for a security guy. Okay, sure, bring it around the left.

761
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.199
I don't have nothing to do with this.

762
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:26.159
It's not my job description.

763
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:29.559
Over it's beyond my pay grade. Man.

764
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.199
Now, do you guys believe that paranormal investigation is more science,

765
00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:42.079
more of an art or kind of a combination.

766
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:47.800
I would say a combination. I mean, yeah, maybe not art,

767
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:55.440
but definitely an emotional human component to it. You're you're

768
00:50:55.480 --> 00:51:00.159
talking to before we went on air, justin we were

769
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:03.960
talking a little bit about the our, our consideration for

770
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.679
people outside of the physical still being people. You know,

771
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.920
we I'll refer to them as spirit people, and you know,

772
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:15.000
because that's you know, there hasn't been a change there

773
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:18.039
in that respect. There's just outside the physical, just in

774
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:22.079
a different form. So that the science, you know, that's

775
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.199
what we have to sort of log our experiences using

776
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:30.320
instruments that are developed by those of us on the

777
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:35.159
physical to try to log and say for certain that

778
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:38.800
there's a change in the environment. So so I would

779
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.679
say it's a combination of both. You know, it's the

780
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.320
connecting through emotion and respect and that kind of thing,

781
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:49.840
and as well as bringing back proof using the gadgets

782
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:54.480
and instruments that we have in the physical. Yeah.

783
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:59.920
Yeah, it's it's both, and you can you can. You know,

784
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:03.320
sometimes you can get out of balance with it. You're

785
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.400
trying to do too much of the science thing and right,

786
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:12.679
you forget about the the human end of it. Uh.

787
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:19.239
Or you can go the other direction and uh, transaturated

788
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:25.519
with psychics and you're not using enough science. Right. You've

789
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:30.320
got to find that balance, and you're not always successful

790
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.880
in the balance, but you you know try. Sorry. Mediums

791
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.599
are great, but idioms get upset with me, And we've

792
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:44.480
used mediums, yeah, throughout our history, and you get upset

793
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:46.280
with me because I just call them another tool in

794
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:47.119
the back in the bar.

795
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:48.920
Uh.

796
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:54.039
Because they are. They're another tool that I I hate

797
00:52:54.079 --> 00:53:00.639
to say use but or or deploy, utilize, utilized to

798
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.880
gain information. And what I do love is when a

799
00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:10.679
medium is sitting there channeling information and we're running EVP

800
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:19.400
side by side, and I'm hearing her giving me answers

801
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:24.400
to her questions or my questions. And then when we

802
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:30.960
play that EVP back, I'm hearing her asking that question,

803
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.159
giving the reply, and on top of her reply is

804
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.119
another voice in the background giving the same replint.

805
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:42.719
That's crazy, and that to me is I mean, that's

806
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:44.400
fantastic evidence.

807
00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:45.519
Right confirmation.

808
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:48.920
Yeah, although it's not considered evidence if you take that

809
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:50.440
to a scientist or you're like, you're.

810
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.679
I seem to recall another instance along those lines, Richard,

811
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.920
where you're working with the male medium and he was

812
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:04.639
saying a different date than the voice was insisting. No,

813
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:05.119
it's this.

814
00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:07.920
Yeah, yeah, there was a bit of an argument going on,

815
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:15.159
and what I'm yeah, Yeah, that's that's fascinating. How many

816
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:16.559
cups you got going on there?

817
00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:24.079
I gotta stay hydrated, man, Yeah, I could take for

818
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:30.039
the other one. Yeah.

819
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.400
Now, what do you guys think the future of the

820
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:34.760
paranormal research is going to look like.

821
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:38.639
A lot better after they read this manual?

822
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:51.039
Uhh, that's a tough one, man, because, uh, you know,

823
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.639
sometimes I get the press thinking about that, you know,

824
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:57.400
what the new technology is coming out, and you know,

825
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:02.679
usually new technology means hey, this is gonna work out.

826
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:06.920
It's actually putting us behind the eight ball, right with

827
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:15.000
AI yeah, voice overs and all the junks that are

828
00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:20.400
coming out with now, you know, with being able to

829
00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:24.880
create your own photographs and your audio and video, and

830
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.960
it's hard. It's getting harder to determine what's real and

831
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:37.760
what's not real, oh for sure. And that's gonna make

832
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.039
it even even harder for the investigator of the future.

833
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:46.960
They're just gonna like, how are you gonna believe anybody

834
00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:52.239
got anything? Right? So, you know, the technology. I love

835
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.119
the older technology and it worked better.

836
00:55:56.480 --> 00:55:56.719
Better.

837
00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:03.519
I've run EVP tests uh old analog tape recorders right

838
00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.159
beside a digital recorder and I get more of the analog.

839
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:09.519
Yeah, I've heard that a lot.

840
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:14.280
Yeah, So, you know, just the new technology and people,

841
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.760
and that's the the thing I don't like is a

842
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:22.239
lot of investigators, instead of buying an actual camera, they

843
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:27.440
take their phone. Right, the phone camera is not a

844
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:31.719
true camera. It doesn't cope, it doesn't capture the actual

845
00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:37.159
true colors that you're seeing. So it's it's altering, you know,

846
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:40.199
and there's so many layers of filters you're not really

847
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:45.519
catching what you think you're catching and lead the misidentification

848
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:50.440
of things. It's not truly what you saw, you know,

849
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:54.199
make the investment. I mean, I mean, really, how how

850
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.719
expensive is are there there a digital camera? Now?

851
00:56:57.519 --> 00:56:57.679
Right?

852
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:00.119
Just buy one and take it on the job, so

853
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:05.000
I mean in a pinch. Yeah, you see something, okay,

854
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.960
and you don't have your camera use your phone right right,

855
00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:12.119
just to record the situation. But you know you should

856
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:17.480
be using a real, real equipment. Uh, you know, forget

857
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:19.440
about all these apps on your phone.

858
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:26.880
Right, yeah, because they're plenty of them.

859
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:30.519
Now, if you're gonna do it, you know, unless it's

860
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:33.559
a fly by night hobby, it's just an interest you

861
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:37.199
want to just do, right, And if you think you're

862
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:41.199
out there trying to capture real evidence and you're really

863
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:46.159
trying to do something important, you know, do it right

864
00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:50.480
mm hmm. Otherwise what's the point? Right?

865
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:56.960
So right, all right, we are running out of time,

866
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:59.400
So I wanted to give both of you a chance

867
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:02.199
to tell everybody where they can find you, guys, find

868
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:10.079
your your work. The MIC's all yours, okay, here in

869
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:12.480
Canada and around the world. We can be found at

870
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:16.639
does search your group dot ca A. That's the address

871
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:17.280
of our website.

872
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:22.599
We'll find bios and book covers and many articles on

873
00:58:23.559 --> 00:58:25.559
a lot of the work that Richard and the group

874
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:28.719
have done over the years. What else can we add

875
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:30.320
to that? Richard our books?

876
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.679
I guess now if you want to contact me directly,

877
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:36.360
I'm not the Searcher Group, that's Richard at the Searcher

878
00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:39.119
Group dot ca. Or you can look me up on

879
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:48.559
Facebook sometimes I'll post stuff there. Our publisher for this book,

880
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:53.519
Llewellyn Worldwide, is gracious enough to have a paranormal journal

881
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:57.360
online invited us to do some articles which we have

882
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:02.119
so we can always go there. What's up as well?

883
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:06.559
And h and all of our books are available through

884
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:12.239
Amazon chapters. Any good books to our well should have

885
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:16.719
our books available. Yeah, twenty four seven, seven days a week.

886
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:24.000
All right, Well, Peter Richard, thank you guys for being

887
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:25.360
on Paratruth Threeborn.

888
00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:28.639
Well, thanks for having us on. Thanks Jostin ID appreciate it.

889
00:59:29.079 --> 00:59:34.039
Yeah, all right, folks, I hope you enjoyed that episode

890
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:37.480
with Richard and Peter. Definitely make sure you check out

891
00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:43.480
the book, The Complete Paranormal Investigation Handbook. It's definitely a

892
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.480
great read for those that are either wanting to get

893
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:51.079
into paranormal investigation, or who have been doing it and

894
00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:57.239
need some ideas to to up their game. As Peter

895
00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:03.199
had said, so if he have any questions or whatever

896
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:07.199
for them, definitely reach out to them. We got a

897
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.280
lot of great stuff up coming up for you guys,

898
01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:12.079
so I appreciate that you guys are still listening to

899
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.559
us each and every week. Make sure you like, share,

900
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:19.360
subscribe no matter wherever you listen or watch. And again,

901
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:21.599
this has been a pre record show on one oh

902
01:00:21.679 --> 01:00:24.559
seven point seven FM, New Orleans, one oh five point

903
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:27.880
three FM on the Gulf Coast, and United Public Radio Network.

904
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:30.320
Make sure you check out all the great shows that

905
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:32.440
we have on the network because there's so many great

906
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:36.360
ones on there. But until next week where you'll find us,

907
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:40.679
same time, same channel. My name is Justin. Talk to

908
01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:41.280
you guys later.
Peter J. Roe Profile Photo
Peter J. Roe

Author

Peter J. Roe is the assistant director of The Searcher Group (est. 1979), and he serves as director of its subdivision, Mortal Coil Paranormal. He regularly conducts research, promotes the Searcher Group's pro bono services, presents field discoveries, and advocates for vanishing heritage sites. Peter has appeared in a testimonial capacity over two seasons of the Travel Channel's 'Fear the Woods', and he is the author of 'Haunted Town Halls' (Quagmire Press, 2018).

Richard Palmisano Profile Photo
Richard Palmisano

I have worked in law enforcement, security and surveillance for over 35 years and am a trained investigator. Retired.
Raised in a haunted house, I became fascinated with the paranormal at an early age and at the age of 18 I launched The Searcher Group in 1979, and is Canada’s oldest paranormal investigation company. Its mission is to investigate paranormal activity, develop and conduct experiments for the advancement of parapsychology, to research and the development of new technologies and theoretic models. And to provide, free of charge, assistance to people having difficulty with paranormal activity either personally, in their home or business.
I work closely with Historical Societies and Government Agencies.
The Complete Paranormal Investigation Handbook is my 6th book.