May 11, 2025

The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm w/Richard Estep

The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm w/Richard Estep

The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm Once a picturesque estate in Indiana, Fox Hollow Farm now holds a chilling legacy. In this episode, Justin & Erik talk to Richard Estep about his book The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm—a gripping blend of true crime and...

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The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm
Once a picturesque estate in Indiana, Fox Hollow Farm now holds a chilling legacy. In this episode, Justin & Erik talk to Richard Estep about his book The Horrors of Fox Hollow Farm—a gripping blend of true crime and the paranormal. They explore the disturbing crimes of suspected serial killer Herb Baumeister, the eerie aftermath that still haunts the property, and the investigators who believe the spirits of his victims have never left. Join them as they uncover the darkness hidden behind the walls of this seemingly quiet farmhouse.

Richard Estep has been a paranormal investigator for thirty years, researching claims of ghosts and hauntings on both sides of the Atlantic. He is the author of more than thirty books, spanning genres that range from paranormal nonfiction and true crime to history and fiction. He is a cast member of the TV shows Haunted Hospitals, Paranormal Revenge, and Paranormal 911, and has made guest appearances on A Haunting, Destination Fear, and Haunted Case Files. Richard writes a regular column for Haunted Magazine and frequently presents at conferences and public events across the United States.

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Thanks for listening!

WEBVTT

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Welcome, Well, well do Barry Truth.

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What's going on? Paratruthers, Welcome to a brand new Paratruth Reborn.

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This is a pre recorded show on one of seven

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point seven FM, New Orleans and United Public Radio Network.

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My name is Justin. Hey, I'm Eric, and tonight we're

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bringing on Richard step to talk about his book The

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Horrors of Fox Hello Farms Farm. Sorry, We've had Richard

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on numerous times with Paratruth Radio and we're happy to

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bring him back. Richard has been a paranormal investigator for

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thirty years and is the author of more than thirty books.

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He is a cast member of the TV shows Haunted Hospitals,

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Paranormal Revenge, and Paranormal Nine to one one. He writes

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a regular column for Haunted Magazine and frequently presents at

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events across the US. And we're gonna bring in Richard desktep. Richard,

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Welcome to Paratruth Reborn.

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How's it going, Hey, gentlemen, it's gooding well? Thanks?

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How about yourselves? Doing good? Doing good? So you've been

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on our show Paratruth Radio at least quite a bit.

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But for our new listeners, tell everybody a little bit

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about how you got into the paranormal field and why

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you wanted to do a book on Fox Hollow Farm.

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Yeah, I mean, I've grew up in a haunted house,

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loved the books of people like Peter Rendlewood, guyline playf

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some of the greats I think in the paranormal field,

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Harry Price, who was a great showman and questioned bull

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virtue but still great popularizer of the field. That gave

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me a love of writing. We all, as writers write

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the books we want to read, and so I ended

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up writing those kind of books and still do.

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Fox Hollow Farm.

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I mean the opportunity to number one who would say

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no to the chance to move in to a residence

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haunted supposedly by the ghost of a serial killer. But

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more importantly, I think it sticks in my crawl, and

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it has until very recently when the Hulu show came out,

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that this case was forgotten, that these gentlemen that bones

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are sitting in evidence boxes on a shelf somewhere with

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no burial, no memorial until very recently, you know, and

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I felt that it was nobody was really making any

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effort to keep the story alive. Being covered on an

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episode of Ghost Adventures. I think there had been a

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documentary movie made about it by a guy called Dan Hall,

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who I think did a good job, but that was

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pretty much it. And I think that this was a

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story that has a lot to say, not just about

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the paranormal, but about the appalling way in which we

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as a society treat some of our marginalized men and women.

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For sure, Now, what do we know for sure about

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Herb and his crimes and what remained speculation still to

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this day.

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Well, if we're going to be technical, the word alleged

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and should be before serial killer whenever we talk about

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her Baummeister. And indeed I saw a newspaper article from

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this week that they were talking about the identification of

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another of his victims through DNA evidence, and it listed

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Badmeister as an alleged serial killer. Because he is, he

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was never charged, let alone convicted. So I think that

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literally everything about this case remained speculation if you get

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down to brass tacks, but there is no other.

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Help.

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Well, let me backtrack on that. There is speculation that

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Herb may have worked in concert with at least one

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other accomplice, potentially more.

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I think that's entirely possible.

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And then you enter the debate of well, who was

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dominant who was not. We do know for sure that

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the remains of multiple men were found on Herb's property,

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that Herb baumeis to match the description of a man

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named Brian Smart who was seen in the nightclubs, the

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gay night clubs of Indianapolis taking home a number of

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the victims. He was the last person that they were

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ever seen alive with, and they turned up dead in

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his backyard. So's he's a very strong candidate to be

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the perpetrator in this case. But you know, again there

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was never a t because Herb Baumeister took his own

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life before he could be put on trial, which again

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is you know, something that an innocent individual probably would

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not have done under these circumstances, right, Okay.

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So it kind of has a Jeffrey Dammer feel to it.

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Now do they know if Herb was gay himself?

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And it's interesting you make that comparison because I think

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it's the TV show makes the statement, this is the

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Damie you've never heard of. And yes, her Van Dabsley.

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Was gay himself. You know, he had a gay lover.

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His mo o was that he would he would go

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to these night clubs when his wife and kids were away,

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usually staying at the lake House in Lake Wawasi. He

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would meet men and say that his name was Brian Smart.

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He adopted this alias, and his story was also We're

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told anyway, that he would approach men that he liked

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the love car preferably ones that were a little down

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on their luck or you know, had been ostracized, maybe carrotsurfing,

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maybe you know, no fixed a bode. But he would

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tell them that he was a contractor working on a

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house with a swimming pool in the basement, that the

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house was empty for the weekend, and that he had

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the some alcohol there, he had some drugs, and that

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they could go back and party in this house with

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a ball. Which sounds like a pretty great way to

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spend your Friday or Saturday night, hilt.

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I mean not to me now, I'm fifty one.

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You know, a great a great way to spend a

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Friday night for me now as a cup of tea

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in a good book. But it was a very attractive

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one for some of these men, and so they accompanied

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him back, and of course he'd set things up before

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he left. Herbs the victim or supposedly the victim that

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got away. Mark Goodyear says that Herb's emo was that

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he would take the swimming pool. He will crank the

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heat all the way up before he left the house.

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Then he would roll the cover over so that I

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always picture this as like a saucepan simmering on the range,

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you know, just kind of getting the heat up there.

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And then when he would bring these men into the pool,

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he would open the three sets of French doors which

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lead out to the back patio. Cold air would come in,

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roll back the pool cover. Cold air meets warm air,

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and what.

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Do you get? Steam?

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And so you've got this steamy, disorienting environment. To make

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things even more surreal, the pool is ringed with mannequins.

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And these mannequins all have names and backstories, and they

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are wearing a variety of clothing, some of them belonging

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to former victims in fact, and in the pool they

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would engage in autoerotic asphyxiation. Herb would invite them to

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strangle him while they engaged in you know, sexual conduct,

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and then he would return the favor.

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But he would not stop.

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And that was her Baumeister's MMO for killing his victims.

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Wow. Now regarding the firm itself, like, what kind of

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paranormal activity are we speaking of? Is how active?

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Is it less so today than it was? So the house?

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It's really kind of necessary to talk about the house

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train how the house chased hands. So Herb Baumeister, when

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he heard that the police were looking for him, drove

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to the Canadian border.

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Across the border, found.

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A scenic spot in a national park, ate his favorite food,

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a PB and Jay sandwich, and then shot himself in

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the head. Although there is now so speculation perhaps that

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he was possibly killed by an accomplice, I that is

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debatable either way, we know that he died of a

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single gunshot wound to the head, which the official account

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says was self inflicted. At that point, the police descend

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on Hollow Farm. They discover thousands of bone fragments, ranging

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in size from entire femas to forearms with handcuffs still

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on them, to small chips and fragments. Because the critters,

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the animals that live in that vicinity, have taken these

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remains and they've scattered them far and wide. So Herp's

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wife and kids move out. They go to start a

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new life and who can blame them for that, for

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wanting to be free of that appalling legacy. Fox Hollow

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Farm sat vacant for a few years until it was

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bought by a couple called Rob and Vicki Graves, who

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moved in with their children. And so, Rob, who co

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authored the book with me, is it's fair to say

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an expert on the Baumeister murders. And he has a

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death and of tie with with that location in that

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you know, he bathes in Herb Baumeister's bathtub, he has

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Herb Baumeister's library. You know, he's he's the c to

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an next bot I think we have on Baumeister's life.

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And Rob did not believe in ghosts. His wife Vicky

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was a little less skeptical, but she's so strange. Things

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started happening around the house when they moved in, stuff

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that seemed weird, but you might try and explain away.

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For example, Vicky was vacuuming downstairs and the power cord

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from the vacuum cleaner was pulled out of the wall.

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You know, we've all done it, right, We've been vacuuming,

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We've caught the cable, we pull it out and it

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kind of whiplashes around your legs and that's just us

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being clumsy. Well, Vicky insisted that it was jerked out

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of the wall. Okay, maybe maybe not. What she couldn't deny, though,

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was the day she came home and she saw a

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young man in a red shirt walking through the trees

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to one side of her house, and initially she thought

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it was trespasser, so she was getting ready to fetch

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Rob to go see this guy off. And when she

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paid closer attention got a good look at the man,

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she realized that he had no les. That this was

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essentially an apparition that was legless from the thighs on down.

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That's what finally convinced her, the appearance of this apparition

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that this farm was haunted, this house was haunted.

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Now do the spirits seem to want justice, peace or

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simply to be acknowledged? Did you get a lot of

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experiences there from any of that?

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It's complex, and I'm always very skeptical when it comes

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to assigning identities in cases of paranormal activity. I did

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bring in different mediums who gave me different accounts, different explanations,

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so that was kind of intriguing to me. The thing

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that I feared the most was and of course, you know,

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you follow the trail wherever it leads. But the thing

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I feared the most was the idea that some of

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his victims may still be earth bound, may still be

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trapped there, because as if they had not suffered enough

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at the hands of this.

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Monster in life, you know.

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But there were others that say that they've seen the

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apparition of Herb Baumeister himself looking out of the kitchen window.

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One medium told me entirely, Craig, you know, he told

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me that he was convinced that there was an entity

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in the pool. He called it the frog, and that

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it was a non human entity that had been drawn

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there because of the evil energies that the murders had created,

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you know, like a moth to a flame. So I

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can't speak to the.

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Validity of any of those.

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Those are all kind of subjective, and whenever you work

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with mediums, you run into that issue right run into

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the whole. Like I always think that whether you're dealing

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with a weija board or whether you're dealing with a medium,

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it's kind of like those old Internet chat rooms from

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the nineties. You only have the word of the person that.

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They are where they say erect.

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You know, it's not like they're literally turning up and manifesting.

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So I tried to keep an open mind, and I

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do to this day. So the accurate answer is I

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I'm not sure, but something is active.

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In that house.

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Something that growth while I was swimming in the pool,

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something that whispered the name Laura while I was swimming

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in the pool, or happening to be my wife's name,

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something that stroked my tricep when I was in the

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pump room, something that's said in a very kind of

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wheezy voice. When I was out in the woods at

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the one of the body disposal sites get away from there.

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I do not know.

227
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:33.399
Well, I mean, it's wild to just think about not

228
00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:38.759
just the potential spirits of the deceased themselves, but possibly

229
00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.120
dark entities that are there prowling the grounds as well.

230
00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:44.919
And you know, we know through a number of different

231
00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:51.399
investigative circumstances, whenever there is a traumatic experience and these

232
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.080
darker entities show up, they kind of have a hold

233
00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.679
on the whole ground, almost as if it's imprisoning other

234
00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.639
spirits in many cases, which is always is you know,

235
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.919
kind of horrifying really, but that was really intriguing. Now

236
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.399
regarding the pool itself, like do you find or have

237
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:13.240
you found that the events, the hauntings that is, really

238
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:17.120
seem to reside around the pool specifically, or how does

239
00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.120
the hunting spread out from the home and maybe else

240
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.639
elsewhere around the yard or the vicinity.

241
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.399
It's a large estate, so about eighteen acres, although it's

242
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.039
half that today because they sold off some of the land.

243
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:35.399
But I think that ground zero for the haunting was

244
00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.840
the pool and the basement, which is where murders took place,

245
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:41.600
either in the pool or the wet bar which adjoins

246
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.679
the pool as adjacent to the pool. So that makes

247
00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.039
a whole lot of sense, you know, but also activity

248
00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.639
does happen upstairs. There is an annex built on the

249
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.840
side of the house. They call them in law you know.

250
00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.120
Complex is the idea being that you can move mom

251
00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.440
in law or you know, your grandparents or whoever, one of.

252
00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.159
Those places if they have to move in with you.

253
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:07.799
So that was occupied by a guy called Joela Blanc

254
00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:13.000
who worked with Rob Graves a car dealership, and was

255
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.919
looking for a place to live and Rob, you know,

256
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.600
let him sub.

257
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:17.559
Let the room out to him.

258
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.000
And what's interesting to me is that, you know, Joe

259
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.919
came along and kindly offered to be a part of

260
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.200
our investigation. Joe is I think a catalyst because he

261
00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.240
is a young single man at the time who was

262
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:34.320
about the same age as as many of Baumeister's victims.

263
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.240
And it was when Joe took up residence at Fox

264
00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:40.120
Hollow that a lot of the paranormal activity ramped up,

265
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:44.440
that it went into high gear. You're introducing this individual

266
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.799
into the mix, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

267
00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:51.759
That's when you know Joe would have these terrible nightmares.

268
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.960
He would he would dream that something was chasing him

269
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.240
and he was running for his life.

270
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:56.960
And I get it.

271
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.240
You know, if I lived at Fox Hollow Farm, knowing

272
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.799
its history, I think I would have a few nightmares myself.

273
00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.559
I'm not saying that's necessarily supernatural. But how this ties

274
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.720
in is that one night, Joe is walking his dog

275
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.240
along the driveway. Driveway is extremely long, it's very dark.

276
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.240
You know, we're looking at a very kind of rural,

277
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.879
you know, kind of scene, and all of a sudden,

278
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.240
his dog catches smell of something or sight of something

279
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.200
or here's something. Whatever goes darting off into the trees.

280
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:31.399
So Joe goes after it because he doesn't want to

281
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.200
lose his dog. And who knows what it is, right,

282
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.440
maybe it's a raccoon or a fox or whatever. It's

283
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:40.279
pitch black, you can't see. And Joe enters the trees

284
00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:42.360
and theirs. He turns around one of the trees, he

285
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:46.000
sees a young man staring at him. And it's the

286
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.679
man that he's seen in his dreams in his apartment.

287
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.480
And this is a young man in a red shirt,

288
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.080
the same young man that Vicki Graves saw walking through

289
00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:01.360
those same trees shortly before. And when they compared, they

290
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.919
both agreed that, yes, this is the same man, and

291
00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.799
it was they used the photograph of Baumeist's victims to

292
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.079
relate this man to being one of her Bo's victims. Wow,

293
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.519
did he know about that victim prior to witnessing him?

294
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.519
Let me rephrase that, did he know that she had

295
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:23.559
witnessed this particular form before he himself? She knew that

296
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.079
he sorry, he knew that she had seen an apparition,

297
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.799
I believe. But the key thing is it was only

298
00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.640
when both of them happened to look at pictures of

299
00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.960
Baumeist's victims that together they hit on that's him at

300
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:39.960
the same time. That's the name we both saw, and

301
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.599
you know, it was a very kind of shocking moment

302
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:46.160
for them. You have two independent eyewitnesses seeing the same

303
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.039
apparition in the same area. Right.

304
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.599
There's a lot of cases like this where true crime

305
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:01.519
and the paranormal kind of inter How does that, in

306
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.880
your opinion, happen, where we have these two different genres,

307
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:07.759
if you will, intersecting.

308
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.480
I think that true crime holds a real fascination for

309
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:17.039
a certain type of person, and it's a similar mindset

310
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:17.839
to the kind.

311
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.359
Of person that's interested in the paranormal.

312
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:21.680
I mean not always. You know, there are purists that

313
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.920
I'm all about the crime, the murders, those kind of things.

314
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:28.759
But I also think that you know, the unknowns, the

315
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.480
elements of mystery, the darker aspects of this do kind

316
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.880
of cross pollinate as far as I'm concerned.

317
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.319
When I write a book.

318
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.279
Or I'm working on a project like this, Number one,

319
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.759
telling the human story is the most important thing to me.

320
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.519
And when I write books about true crime that have

321
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.759
no paranormal content at all, I'm primarily interested in two things.

322
00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:54.440
Number one is keeping a light on the victims and

323
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.640
not the murderers. And number two, I think we all

324
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.119
would like to know how these individuals think so that

325
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:07.319
we might better understand them and hopefully better avoid them.

326
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.000
Now, why do you think it is then that locations

327
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.440
like this continue to attract attention and in particular, investigators

328
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.839
to want to investigate these basics? I personally know, like

329
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.680
a couple of spots in which there were murders that

330
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.400
were caused, nobody had specified that there was a haunting,

331
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.720
and yet we see flocks of people running there to

332
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.440
try to investigate and see what they can find. What

333
00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:31.839
is it about these places you think that's so intriguing

334
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:32.920
to humanity?

335
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:35.119
I hate to say it, but I think there is

336
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.799
a macabre and morbid aspect to it. Nobody investigates a

337
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.000
fox hollow farm anymore. The Graves family. I really don't

338
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:45.799
allow it, and I completely respect that.

339
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:48.319
I think that.

340
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.440
Oh, I hate to say it, but there is two

341
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.279
There's a fascination and also there's a certain degree of

342
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.720
egotism to it. You know, the idea that people think

343
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:00.680
they are the ones that can crack this case, and

344
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:05.039
so on and so forth, when in reality, I think

345
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.480
these cases are rare. You look at Gasey's home, you

346
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.480
look at Dama's apartment building. You know, they are demolished,

347
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.119
and they're demolished with good reason. Nobody wants them to

348
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.039
become a shrine to these monsters Fox Hollow. I know

349
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:26.480
that the municipality, the local area was gonna band together,

350
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.359
get some money, kick it in, and then you know.

351
00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:30.720
Bulldeau is the place, just demolish it flat.

352
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.920
And I one hundred percent understand that they don't want

353
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.480
it to be this ever present psychic scar not psychic

354
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.119
scar scar on their community. You know, they don't want

355
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.519
to be the town that's known for that, and they

356
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.720
don't want this constant stream of trespasses, which Robin and

357
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.920
VICKI did deal with for the longest time and dealt

358
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.119
with again once the TV shows started airing in February,

359
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.039
you know, to the point where the police had to

360
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.640
mount a guard on fox Holow Farm last month. On

361
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.160
the other hand, I think that you know, it is

362
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:09.200
a good thing that this place is still standing because

363
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:15.720
the Graves family has reclaimed that house from its awful

364
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:20.440
history rather than just wiping it out. It stands as

365
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:24.799
an education to us, and it's also a living family home.

366
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:27.839
So there have been how many Christmas is? How many

367
00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:28.559
Fourth of July?

368
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:28.799
Is?

369
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.359
How many Thanksgivings where families get together in that house

370
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.759
and they bring light and they bring warmth.

371
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:35.680
And they bring good vibes.

372
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.640
I rather like the idea that the evil, the negativity

373
00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:41.880
of what's gone on there can maybe be washed out

374
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.400
if you go at it long enough, and I think

375
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:50.079
that's partly why the activity at fox Holo Farm is subsiding.

376
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.559
Okay, well, I hate to bring this up because we

377
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.720
talk about it way too much on our show, But

378
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.200
you know, Jeffrey Dahmer's home in bath Io, we got

379
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.319
to do an investigation there just because there was reports

380
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:11.119
of paranormal activity. And now they've shot the one movie

381
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.440
there and have done a couple of documentaries. So I

382
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.279
appreciate that you bring up that, you know, a lot

383
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:23.519
of these places are bulldoze just so that that scar

384
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.920
is not there anymore. And I think with the bath

385
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:31.440
Ohio house specifically, it's still standing and leaving a scar

386
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:34.359
because people keep coming in and out of there. Now,

387
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.079
I thought Doma lived in an apultment complex.

388
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:39.440
One of my missers So the house that we're talking

389
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.359
about was the house that he grew up in and

390
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.160
it's the originally where he killed Stephen Hicks, so his

391
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.400
first official murder. Right, So that house does still stand

392
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:52.160
and yeah, they did in the private residence now it

393
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:53.319
is a private residence now.

394
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:58.240
Yes, And did you get evidence there? We did? Yeah,

395
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.359
a little bit, not a lot. I mean, you know,

396
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.400
doing paranalizations, a lot of times you're not getting much.

397
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.680
But there was a floating torso there Eric saw with

398
00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:16.279
his eyes a gold orb fly through walls. Eric had

399
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:21.839
his name whispered, So I think that there is something there.

400
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.559
What it is I don't know well, and there's something

401
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:26.480
I would love to float you guys as well.

402
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.519
One thing that I've learned after doing this now for

403
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.079
thirty years is that we make a lot of assumptions,

404
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:37.200
and one is that sometimes what we get isn't what

405
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.440
we assume we're getting. So I always think we have

406
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:43.680
to consider paranormal activity is kind of like sometimes an

407
00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:47.640
infection or a contamination. So maybe that's because I work

408
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.519
in the medical field, but my point is that sometimes

409
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:53.640
I think we go to investigate a location, we expect

410
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:55.279
a certain thing based on its history.

411
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:55.839
Or its background.

412
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.640
Maybe what we're getting is something that we're bringing in

413
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.640
there with us, like in this same way we would

414
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:02.480
track mud and if we didn't wipe our feet, you

415
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:02.960
know what I mean?

416
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:03.720
Yeah.

417
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.880
I used to do ghost tours at the Stanley Hotel

418
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:12.359
in Esther's Park inspiration for the Shining, and we the

419
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.480
most common by far.

420
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:14.880
One of the most common.

421
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:20.359
Reports from the Stanley was ghostly children apparitions, footsteps, running,

422
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.720
kids laughing, playing, giggle and you know those kind of things. Well,

423
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:27.880
the hotel's historian checked and checked again and there is

424
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.000
not one kid on record ever as having died in

425
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.160
that hotel, not one.

426
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:32.920
So what's going on? Well?

427
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.920
Number one, I think you have the possibility that's residual,

428
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:38.640
that kids that were there have left some kind of

429
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.000
imprint because they were so very happy at the Stanley

430
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.400
during their days. Number two is that something's imitating children.

431
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.599
And number three is hitchhikers, the idea that you know,

432
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.720
some of the activity is caused by the many paranormal

433
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.039
enthusiasts like ourselves that go to these places. Who knows

434
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:58.920
what psychic mud we're tracking in onto the carpet and

435
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.640
leaving behind us when we uh so I do wonder

436
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.920
if some of these places, you.

437
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.119
Know you have to look at, did I bring this

438
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:06.000
along with me and.

439
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:07.160
Not know it right?

440
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:07.480
What?

441
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.440
On top of that, you know, unless this is like

442
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:15.880
these children in particular, were captured on evidence in some way,

443
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.440
if people are just witnessing them, it could very well

444
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:21.079
just be psychological too. They're manifesting it in their own

445
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.359
mind and eyes and it's not really there to begin with.

446
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.200
You mentioned that, and it's very It fascinates me. You know,

447
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.279
Robin Viey have a dog sitter of all things, and

448
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.119
when they go on vacation and house sits too, you know,

449
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.079
their house sitter is there. And let me tell you,

450
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.160
like to be all alone in that place, it's very

451
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:42.640
dark around Foxhollow, Like you know, you go out there

452
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.799
at night and it is like pitch black, surrounded by trees,

453
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.880
long driveway leading into the road. And so I'm like,

454
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.599
I don't know how comfortable I would be being here

455
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:55.319
on my own in the dark for or But but

456
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.720
if you didn't tell me the history of that house,

457
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.799
if you said, hey, Richard, there is this beautiful mock

458
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.640
Tu di mansion in Indiana, We'd love you to house

459
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:07.559
it for a week. It's great. You can hang out,

460
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:09.519
they've got cable, you can write your books, you can

461
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.039
watch TV. I'll pay you a thousand bucks. I'd be like,

462
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:12.680
show me the way.

463
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:13.240
You know.

464
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.559
It's only when we factor in what we know that

465
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:20.160
our imagination, I think, starts playing tricks on us.

466
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:22.400
And so I think there's.

467
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.480
Sometimes our own predispositions and biases are our worst enemy

468
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.599
is paranormal investigators. What I wish I had done, and

469
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.480
I would love to do it someday, but that shit

470
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.119
may already have sailed. I would love to take someone

471
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.279
who has no idea what happened in their house whatsoever,

472
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.680
and put them in there for a weekend with cameras

473
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.359
and just record what happens, you know, without any notion

474
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.960
of bias at all. I think that'll be a very

475
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:46.920
valuable experiment.

476
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.319
Yeah. Well, and you know what, I'm glad you brought

477
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:59.200
up the bringing it into a location, because when we left,

478
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:03.160
I felt like something wasn't right, and I just said,

479
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.960
you know, whatever's here right now, you need to leave,

480
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.319
and heard it like in a really deep voice, goodbye, justin.

481
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.119
But I had also been touched there, so it makes

482
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.200
a lot of sense. That I might have brought something

483
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:21.920
with me, just thinking that I would be catching something

484
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.079
there because of what happened there. Well and goodbye.

485
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.640
Justin's interesting, right, the idea that like, you've had this

486
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.599
hitchhiker you didn't know about, and then and here's a

487
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:32.599
new playground for it, all of a sudden, and you

488
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.200
know what, Hey, thanks by peace out. It's been fun

489
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.640
knowing you. Let's keep in touch. But then you go,

490
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.519
you know, so I think that probably happens more often.

491
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:43.720
And then I get to think in people like us,

492
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:46.599
and almost certainly you know your viewers and listeners to

493
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.359
your show, we're of a similar mindset, right. Most people

494
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.519
spend their weekends like watching the Denver Broncos or whoever

495
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:55.960
their team is. We spend weekends in these dark and

496
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.240
haunted places trying to talk to the dead. We are

497
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:01.559
a certain type of person and we go to the

498
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:06.000
same types of places. So, you know, for example, if

499
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:08.559
I go to Waverly Hills this weekend and then you

500
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.039
go next weekend, who's to say I don't take something

501
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:15.599
along with me that I picked up at Bobby Mackie's

502
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.119
back when it was standing, you know, and I took

503
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.920
it from A to B and then just like cross contamination,

504
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.599
you go to Waverly Hills the next weekend, it gloms

505
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:25.680
onto you and it comes to your next oneed location.

506
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:27.440
I think maybe.

507
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:31.160
There's something to this idea that we can contaminate and

508
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.400
infect haunted locations just by the amount of them that

509
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:34.799
we go.

510
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:36.559
To, right, Yeah.

511
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:38.440
So, I mean the way you make it sad to

512
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.559
say is if in many spiritual ways, these entities could

513
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:44.799
be parasites that just latch on and jump from one

514
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.720
place to the next, and they're so yeah, you know.

515
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.359
I know, for the longest time, people early on, at

516
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.200
least in the whole investigative realm that is ghost hunting

517
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:01.119
or investigating, people used to believe that spirits would basically

518
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.640
be stuck in a single place. It wouldn't be able

519
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:05.839
to leave the four wars that they were stuck in,

520
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:12.599
and that I can't say it's been officially disproved, but

521
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.160
I think there's plenty of hard evidence that shows that

522
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.640
just as you say, these entities can move from one

523
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.039
place to another, especially if they can attach themselves to

524
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:24.119
us in some way and keep that energy and move about.

525
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:25.279
Oh, let's hope.

526
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:28.480
So, because firstly, I try not to assume. I try

527
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.839
not to default to ghosts equal the dead, right, I

528
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.680
think that's lazy thinking. It's born of many, many generations

529
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.720
of scary movies and literature and things like that. I

530
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.079
think that in some cases it seems undeniable that we

531
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.240
are communicating with either the dead or fragments of a

532
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:45.640
former intelligence or whatever you.

533
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:46.119
Want to call it.

534
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:50.279
But if my afterlife has me confined to the same

535
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:54.960
four walls, that sounds appalling. I'd like to get out

536
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:56.599
and see the world, you know, I'd like to get

537
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:57.279
out and travel.

538
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.079
So I hope it's that that way. I really really

539
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:01.799
do that.

540
00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:05.119
Being said, you know, I also like the idea that

541
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.839
we can set and enforced boundaries. You have a lock

542
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.799
on your front door. I'm assuming you have a ring,

543
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:12.559
doorbell or security system or something like that. So just

544
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.839
because strangers can travel, they can get on a plane

545
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.720
in Cincinnati and get off the plane in Cheyenne, Wyoming,

546
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.480
doesn't mean they can just walk into your house.

547
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:20.759
Right.

548
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:24.039
Well, we set those same I think security expectations and

549
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.519
boundaries when we investigate. I'm very clear about it when

550
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.359
I do. I didn't used to be. I was quite

551
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.440
lazy about it. And I used to scoffer the idea,

552
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.880
and then I had to have my house blessed by

553
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.200
a Catholic priest, which is a big deal when you're

554
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:39.240
an agnostic. You've never eaten humble pie like it until

555
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:42.599
you've had to call your friend the Catholic priest you say, hey,

556
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:47.240
you come bless my house. So you know, I think

557
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:50.079
this something to it. I do think the potential exists

558
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.799
that they can travel, and I think sometimes we unwittingly help.

559
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:59.119
Them a lot, for sure. Now, if the walls of

560
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.799
fox Hullo Farm could talk, what would they say?

561
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.240
They would say, this is private property, keep out.

562
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:12.200
That's the question though, isn't it.

563
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.880
I think that that house as Yeah, if these walls

564
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.240
could talk, Never has that been more true than in

565
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.759
this case. There is so much doubt, There is so

566
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:25.039
much obfuscation and confusion and conflicting stories about what happened

567
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:29.039
during those murders. I would be most interested to hear,

568
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.559
you know, the truth of what happened. How many individuals

569
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:35.759
were truly involved in carrying out the crimes. Did her

570
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:38.759
Baumeister act alone? Did he have an accomplice? Was he

571
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:44.000
an accomplice? And I hope those Walls would also say

572
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.200
that as dark as things once were in their house,

573
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.319
they are getting lighter and lighter with every passing year.

574
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.640
But it is taken time for that darkness to fade away.

575
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.519
So why do you think some places hold aren't darkness

576
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.720
so long after these crimes are over?

577
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.880
Well, let's, you know, pick other locations where you have

578
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.640
a tragic event takes place and then they just are

579
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.359
left to sit and fester. You don't have any energy

580
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:17.119
going in or out.

581
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:18.079
So I don't know that you.

582
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.920
Have an active haunting. That is fascinating, right. The idea

583
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.079
of is a place still haunted if there is no

584
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.240
witness there to observe it or experience it. That's one

585
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.559
of the great you know, questions I think for our

586
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:32.960
field to answer. But without any kind of energy source

587
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.920
coming in, I don't know that that much goes on.

588
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.079
And then you introduce the human equation, right, And I

589
00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:43.920
think with some of these darker locations, I think they

590
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.839
lie dormant and it takes that reintroduction of human energy

591
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.400
in order to make them simmler up again. And at

592
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.000
that point, you know, if the energy was dark to

593
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.200
begin with, why would we expect it to have mellowed

594
00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.759
when it has basically been laying fallow.

595
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:12.759
Now. I mean there's multiple locations like this, and even

596
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:19.079
in locations that haven't had this much trauma there. But

597
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.519
if somebody wants to do an investigation at some place

598
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:28.920
like this, what is the best advice you can give them?

599
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:32.960
Firstly, always get permission. Don't trespass. It shouldn't We should

600
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.920
go without saying. But it's amazing how many people think

601
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.920
the rules don't apply to them. So assuming that you

602
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.559
have permission to do so. Number one, be respectful. Well,

603
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:44.599
no matter who or what you're dealing with, you know

604
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.799
it is it is foolish to go in and swagger.

605
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:50.319
And I've been guilty of this in the past myself

606
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.960
a little bit. I generally don't provoke. I do make

607
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:58.119
exceptions in cases like I might be dealing with you know,

608
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.920
her Baumeister, or I investigate the gaycy Holme thing. I'll

609
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.039
make an exception in those kind of cases. But unless

610
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.280
you are very sure of who are what you're dealing with,

611
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.760
Tread softly, listen twice as much as you speak, Try

612
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.920
and establish a connection. Keep an open mind, but not

613
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.599
so open that people will throw any old rubbish into it.

614
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:23.519
Now.

615
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.559
My final question here regarding fox Hella Farm, considering the

616
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.719
crime that happened there, is it possible that the land

617
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:39.000
itself is just cursed or is it strictly that, you know,

618
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:44.199
people bring the evil with them because they're interested in

619
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.360
doing these things, you know, like you said earlier today,

620
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:49.800
you know, sometimes we go into these these places with

621
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.719
a mindset that kind of might set the whole mood

622
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:57.039
for the night. But I think there's been a lot

623
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.039
of question is whether or not it's actually the the

624
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:05.199
circumstance behind the haunting, or if it's the land itself,

625
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.480
considering how ordinately be and how many generations have.

626
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:11.239
Lived there over the years, I think you always have

627
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:14.400
to consider the land as a paranormal investigator. You know,

628
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.199
I've seen new houses, completely new constructions that come with ghosts,

629
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:21.599
and so you always do have to consider the land.

630
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:25.800
I think, though, if you don't look at the events

631
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:32.079
here closely, what how unlucky would it be that this

632
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:34.440
land just happened to be cursed and just happened to

633
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.880
be the home of a serial murderer. And just like

634
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.679
there is a lot of coincidence there. And I'm a

635
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:41.519
big fan of Ockham's razor. I don't know if you

636
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:45.360
chaps with familiar with the concept, we are, yes, and

637
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:46.039
I don't want.

638
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:47.679
To I don't want to assume, and you know, I

639
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.760
don't want to man explain, So would one of you?

640
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:56.480
What if you explained that concept to the airspace they're good?

641
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.639
Well, I mean, it's razors more or less if I'm listening,

642
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:09.360
that's I'm mistaken. It's more or less what is could

643
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:13.519
be and what isn't isn't Like you know, we walk

644
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:17.679
into a place, we can't assume just anything. Some of

645
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.079
these places may exist with evils that you know, have

646
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:27.199
always been there, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true either.

647
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:28.719
Yeah.

648
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:31.480
I mean my understanding what comes raiser is that, you know,

649
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:38.000
given two competing explanations, generally the least complex tends to

650
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:38.440
be true.

651
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.920
The simplest is the is the ready Yeah, and so.

652
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:43.719
What And it just kind of related to what you're saying, Eric,

653
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.880
because is it is it likely you know, on the

654
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.480
one hand, if we assume that fox holor Farmers haunted.

655
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.239
On the one hand, is it.

656
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.639
Because the ground was cursed and somehow a serial murderer

657
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:58.280
happened to move in and buy that place happened to

658
00:36:58.400 --> 00:36:59.719
murder people there?

659
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:02.199
Or did bad.

660
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:04.840
Things happen in this place, which we know, and that

661
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:10.719
was the precipitating you know, the fuse which lit the conflagration,

662
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.159
as it were. To me, the second explanation, bad things

663
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.199
caused worse things is simpler and fits better than jumping

664
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.480
through the hoops of the land is cursed, and so

665
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.960
on and so forth. I know that this is the US, right,

666
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:29.440
and this whole country is a native burial ground.

667
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:30.960
It just is.

668
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:35.119
And now thanks to Steven Spielberg and Poltergeist and Tobey Hooper,

669
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:37.920
we all know it. Right, it's become of cliche. It's

670
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.320
be kind of throat. I mean, I just saw this

671
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:45.360
very argument made on Ghost Adventures last week for the

672
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.599
Poltergeist House, the one where they shot exterior scenes primarily

673
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.519
from the movie you know, being haunted or cursed because

674
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:57.119
this was native ground and you know, skeletons were put

675
00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:58.400
in the ground for a movie shoot.

676
00:37:59.119 --> 00:37:59.880
I mean, is it.

677
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.280
Possible, sure, but you can't throw a rock in this

678
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:07.000
country without hitting you know, old burial grounds. Or people

679
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.119
always say to me, or frequently say to me, and

680
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:11.760
it kind of makes me laugh, you know, Richard. You're

681
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:14.400
from England, right, You're from Europe where all the history is,

682
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:19.599
and I know what they mean. You know, it's not

683
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.559
we've got more hit There were people here too that

684
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:26.119
were happening here too, massacres and stuff was happening here too.

685
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:26.599
Yeah.

686
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:29.440
Sure, there weren't nights riding around in suits of armor

687
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:31.400
and that, you know, I get it right. But by

688
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.400
the same token, you know, old Land is old land,

689
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:39.039
and old Land I think has its history. You have

690
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:41.000
to look at the ground shore. But in the case

691
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.199
of Fox Hollow Farm, my suspicion is a bad man

692
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.280
did some horrific things and that sparked this haunting off.

693
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.039
Well, and what I think is really interesting too. You know,

694
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.159
when it comes to cursed grounds, you know, so many

695
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.960
people want to blame it on the grounds itself, but

696
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.519
it's very possible if the grounds are cursed, it's actually

697
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.679
could or could be a manifestation of so many people

698
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.119
bleeding in that possibility to begin with that then re

699
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:11.679
energizes it and creates this cursed ground.

700
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:13.039
Yeah.

701
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.679
Yeah, And you know you kind of hit upon something

702
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.320
that's I've always wondered about with curses.

703
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.480
Having written about them in a couple of books.

704
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.519
Now, I do curses work if you don't believe in them?

705
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.719
If you were to be cursed by someone and you

706
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.199
didn't know that you've been cursed, would you in.

707
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:29.519
Fact feel the effects of the curse.

708
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.679
I always think of a curse as a kind of

709
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:35.719
reverse placebo effect. You know, we know that in medicine

710
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:39.320
placebo works. I mean, you can't argue that peer reviewed

711
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.239
study after peer reviewed study proves that it does. We

712
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:45.320
don't know why, but we do know that belief is

713
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.360
a powerful force.

714
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:46.719
You know.

715
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.360
The question is does it work when you don't know

716
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:53.119
about it? And by the same token. You know, in

717
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:58.440
cases where we talk about curses, this collective belief, this

718
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:03.280
collected agreement that a place can be cursed, a place

719
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:05.760
is cursed. The same is true of hauntings. I think

720
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.119
a place is haunted. We can kind of all agree

721
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:11.599
on it. I think that can sometimes usher these things

722
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:14.239
into life, or if there is kind of a spark

723
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:18.239
there already propel them to the next level. Belief is

724
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:19.400
immensely powerful.

725
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:25.440
Yeah, I mean we've talked about it on our show.

726
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:28.960
But the belief of Tulpa's and that you can create

727
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.199
stuff just by a random thought.

728
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:36.320
Egregor's Tulpa's thought forms, right, yeah, which, yeah, part of

729
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.920
him alaying culture, I know. But yeah, I've seen a

730
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.039
number of cases in which I am convinced that the

731
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.840
entity in question was an Eggregor, that it was created,

732
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:47.920
it was manufactured.

733
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:48.239
I mean.

734
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.639
The one that I talk about frequently is Malvin Manor

735
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.719
in Iowa, one of my favorite haunted locations, which is

736
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.920
haunted by the ghost of a little girl called Ainaz,

737
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:02.320
who we know hanged herself or was either accidentally hanged

738
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.039
or hanged herself. There is some debate in I won't

739
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.480
say nineteen hundred and has haunted the place ever since,

740
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.360
and that story was told over and over. At Malvin Manor,

741
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:20.000
investigators frequently encounter the spirit of a little girl that sounds, looks,

742
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:24.079
acts like a little girl answers to Ainez. Except it

743
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:28.280
was subsequently discovered on deeper research that although Inez was

744
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.000
real and she did die that way, she actually died

745
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:33.639
in a home, not at Malvin Manor, which was several

746
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:38.159
blocks away. But by the time that became knowledge, the

747
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:42.360
story had taken rude, it was entrenched, and so why

748
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.559
would the ghost of this little girl haunt a building

749
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:47.039
she'd probably never been to blocks from where she died

750
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.159
and lived right, right? Or do we have an opportunistic

751
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:56.400
entity that's role playing or has a thought form, whatever

752
00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:59.639
you want to call it, Edgar Gortolpa whatever being created

753
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.599
because that story was told over and over with conviction.

754
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:06.159
Nobody was trying to mislead anybody that was you know,

755
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.320
the story as it was understood and it was repeated.

756
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:11.159
And this is the you talk about curses. The curse

757
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:14.000
of the paranormal writer is the phrase it is said,

758
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.320
it is sead, you know, a little guy, and then

759
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:19.360
all of a sudden it becomes established fact. And then

760
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.800
all of a sudden you're recording EBPs from that established

761
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.320
fact when it isn't a fact at all.

762
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:26.400
How do you explain it?

763
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:27.239
Right?

764
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.960
It's you're right, and it's you know, it's crazy to

765
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.920
think that, who knows, many of the haunted locations that

766
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:37.519
we've all investigated over the years may not even really

767
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:41.199
be haunted if people didn't believe in those things to

768
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:42.840
begin with, right, all the stories?

769
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.280
I mean, yeah, but also, how do we define haunted? Right?

770
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:48.039
That's a great question, isn't it.

771
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.960
That is you know, we come back to this really

772
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:54.800
narrow definition of ghost sequel dead people. You get footsteps

773
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:58.320
in the night, you know, walking across your floorboards in

774
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.159
a house that somebody died in fifty years ago. Chances

775
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.400
are that's residual. It doesn't mean you actually have this

776
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:09.440
discarna intelligence necessarily in your home, not that that's much

777
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.280
of a comfort to you at three am when it

778
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:13.760
happens and you go looking for the nearest paranoral team.

779
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:17.159
But it's a haunting, right, even though it's not intelligent,

780
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:20.760
it's still a haunting. And I think that the word

781
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.360
haunting is an umbrella for us. The word ghost is

782
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.760
an umbrella, and we don't define it particularly well. And

783
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.639
I always think back to the spr's landmark study on

784
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.800
phantasms of the living. You know how they looked at

785
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.039
all these cases of apparitions, whether people were alive and

786
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.199
perfectly well at the time, And this was huge. This

787
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:44.079
was just turned out to be immensely common.

788
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:45.920
Were they ghosts?

789
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:48.039
I mean, what else would we call them?

790
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.360
Were they asketratly projecting or traveling?

791
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.079
They weren't dead, we know that. So there goes our

792
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:56.159
ghost sequels, dead people, and then what are we left with?

793
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:58.800
So I think we have a problem of definition in

794
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:02.800
the paranormal field, and we kind of ignore it because

795
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.079
it's so much more fun for us to just go

796
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:08.239
creep around to the dog, assuming that we're talking.

797
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.639
To the dead. Yeah, for real. The it's funny you

798
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:16.760
bring that up because two instances came to my mind.

799
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.039
My wife and I were sleeping the one night here

800
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.800
in our house. As far as we know, nobody died here,

801
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:28.320
but we heard footsteps upstairs, and lo and behold, it

802
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:32.239
was our dog. But he never goes upstairs when we're sleeping,

803
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:34.960
so it freaked her out. It freaked me here.

804
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.840
Footsteps and then it's disembodied panting.

805
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.400
And then another time, I was doing an investigation for

806
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:50.039
a friend's business and a name came up on the

807
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:56.480
ghost box that I have, and everybody's like, oh, that

808
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:58.800
guy actually used to live here. He actually just lives

809
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:02.480
right down the street now. So it's like, Okay, was

810
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:06.440
there something there that knew that name. It wasn't saying

811
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:09.480
it's him, It was just bringing that name up because

812
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.199
he used to live there, or you know whatever.

813
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.159
Yeah, it's I think we just have to keep an

814
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:19.119
open mind, a broad we can need to cast a

815
00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:20.280
broaden it it sometimes.

816
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:25.320
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, it is about that time

817
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:26.679
to let you go, so I want to give you

818
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:28.800
a chance to tell everybody where they can find you

819
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.360
find the book. The MIC's all yours. Yeah, guys, you.

820
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.239
Can find Horrors and Fox Hollo Farm with all of

821
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:40.280
your traditional outlets, not just Amazon and the big companies,

822
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:44.119
but also your small local, independently owned bookstore can order

823
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:45.960
it in for you as well, so I encourage you

824
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.599
to do that. And you can find the TV series

825
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.920
which it partially inspired, The Fox Hollow Murders, is now

826
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:52.679
streaming on Hulu.

827
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:58.480
Awesome, all right, Richard, We will let you go, have

828
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:00.599
a good rest of your evening, and then you know,

829
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.159
as soon as we have link, will get it to you.

830
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.199
Sounds good.

831
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:07.320
Thanks a lot, Sorry that we have misconnect I still

832
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:08.760
don't know what happened with that though.

833
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:14.119
Yeah, but we will talk to you later. Take care,

834
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:19.280
be safe haven, Thanks, thank you, goodbye. All right, folks.

835
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:22.840
That was Richard step author of The Horrors at Fox

836
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.920
Hello Farm. He's had so many other books, so make

837
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.800
sure you check him out, and I'm sure we will

838
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:31.639
have him back on at some point for one of

839
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:32.880
his other books for sure.

840
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:33.760
Uh.

841
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:38.320
Some final thoughts, I think we need to kind of

842
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.840
get out of our heads just so we can clear

843
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:46.320
the air and not have hauntings in our place of home.

844
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:50.360
What what are some of your final thoughts about like

845
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:56.760
investigator hauntings like this and having to do with murderers

846
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:59.480
or serial killers since we've had the experience.

847
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.559
Yeah, I mean, it's it's a tough call, you know,

848
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:05.760
Like when we did the investigation at Dahmer's house, and

849
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:07.599
I know her listeners have heard this like three days

850
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:12.639
in a wee right around now, but a lot of

851
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:17.840
what we captured didn't give us significant evidence pointing to.

852
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:22.239
Dahmer or one for that matter.

853
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.320
You know, we saw a nail in a tree that,

854
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:28.960
you know, based on the math and the growth of

855
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.199
a tree, very well might have been put there by

856
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:33.920
Dahmer himself when he was nailing animals on the tree.

857
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:39.719
The disembodied apparition that was seen that very well could

858
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:42.960
have just been a manifestation, a mistake by the eyes,

859
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:46.119
you know, a trick of the eyes. We don't really

860
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:50.440
know for sure. And as for like the glowing orb

861
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:53.639
that I saw again, was it even really there was

862
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:54.119
seen it?

863
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:54.400
You know?

864
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.719
And if it was, who was it? What was it?

865
00:47:57.280 --> 00:47:59.719
The only thing that like, for me personally, that I

866
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:02.719
know for a fact is the EVP that I called,

867
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:07.159
which was responding by saying my name in a very

868
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.159
creepy way. Where did that come from? And who said it?

869
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:11.199
Right?

870
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.840
Like? Was it Dahmer? Was it Hicks? Was it some

871
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.519
other entity that maybe we run along or that was

872
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.840
manifested there by somebody else at some point. We don't

873
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.960
really know. I can only imagine the type of things

874
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.039
that maybe the current owners are witnessing. Considering how much

875
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:32.280
publicity that house has received over the last ten years,

876
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:34.920
and there's been filming done in there, and trust me,

877
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.199
as someone who works in the film industry, there is

878
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:39.800
a lot of energy energy that was placed into that

879
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:44.320
house during those three months or so that they filmed, So,

880
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:49.280
you know, it's incredibly interesting. And then going to I

881
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.199
was gonna bring this up earlier, but like the idea

882
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:53.840
of curse Land, you know, one story that really pops

883
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:57.800
up in my mind is the story of the Mityville House,

884
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.239
right yeah, because there were was a belief that this

885
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:04.840
house was already cursed to begin with or haunted, and

886
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:10.440
that you know, the murders had happened because he was

887
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:14.119
kind of broken you know, he was worn down and

888
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.599
broken and eventually more or less possessed or at least

889
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:20.760
oppressed to the point of actually going around and killing

890
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.760
the family again, Like, is that really what happened? Was

891
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.480
this person just a psychopath?

892
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:28.760
You know?

893
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:31.800
Did this story even? You know, like what exactly happened?

894
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.119
We can go around circles trying to figure it out,

895
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:41.840
but I think in the end it's just currently at least,

896
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:48.800
it's up to each person's I guess mostly just like

897
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.760
what their truth is, right, but they want to believe. Like,

898
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.639
we can only do so much. I mean, I'll tell

899
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.679
you that there are things I see on Ghost Adventures

900
00:49:55.719 --> 00:49:57.760
and ghost Hunters on the other shows that I'm like,

901
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:00.719
I don't believe it. I don't think I was no,

902
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:03.639
you know, and of course, while I was there, it

903
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.320
might be a very different story. But you know, we

904
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.360
have to take things with a grain of salt. But

905
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.880
we also have to take real consideration when it comes

906
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.480
to these hauntings, because we don't want to mislead individuals,

907
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:16.760
especially as investigators who are trying to help others. The

908
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:18.719
very last thing you want to do is mislead someone

909
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.599
because that can make things worse or it could completely

910
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:26.400
dismiss the situation entirely and they're just back to square one.

911
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.639
Well, we've talked about it numerous times, not just with

912
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:33.360
the Jeffrey Dahmer case, but a couple of cases that

913
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:37.960
we worked on where a certain individual was giving information

914
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:43.280
And you can't be doing that on invest when you're

915
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:47.119
on the investigation itself. But you also cannot give definitive

916
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:49.840
one way or the other. Yes, your place is haunted.

917
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.679
You can present the evidence, let them believe whatever it

918
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:56.679
is they're going to believe, because they're going to believe

919
00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:01.079
that even if you tell them there's nothing there. Yeah.

920
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:04.199
But you know, I think in our experience, we've had

921
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:08.079
people ask us what our opinions are. Right, you know,

922
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:10.000
you have to give an opinion. I mean, if you

923
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:13.599
want to be if you don't want to be a

924
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:16.000
jerk about it, you know, you give them your opinion

925
00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:18.400
and what you think. But you know, one thing that

926
00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:20.400
I've noticed a lot with the investigators we've worked with,

927
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:25.159
and even those we see on TV, they will say, like,

928
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:28.079
you know, I, yes, I think this house is haunted.

929
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.079
But and they go give some sort of explanation as

930
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:33.960
to how things can be better or why they don't

931
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.760
have to worry about the stuff. I have heard stories

932
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.920
of investigators going into homes and saying, yes, if we've

933
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:46.000
it's haunted, and then giving this irrational explanation of why,

934
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:51.360
and it actually scares the homeowners or the property owners

935
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.920
for what reason, right, Because like, all you're doing is

936
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.079
you're using fear in that case, which is going to

937
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:59.960
promote the haunting even more. We just talked about the

938
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:03.960
psychological effects of this. I mean, I like to call

939
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.239
it an industry with the paranahol investigation, because at this point,

940
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:08.679
it's kind of what it is, right, It's what a

941
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:14.639
lot of us are doing. And that's that's just you know,

942
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.920
that's that's a tough thing to do. We don't want

943
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:20.039
to do. We don't want to mislead people. We don't

944
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:24.199
want to promote fear because that's going to promote the

945
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.920
haunting in ways that we don't want it to truly manifest.

946
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.960
And there's the tail, there's going to show up.

947
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:32.440
It was gone all.

948
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:34.280
I tried.

949
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:36.960
He jumped up here like mid show, and I immediately

950
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:38.880
grabbed him and pushed his tail down and like, no,

951
00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:42.280
you're not getting in the way. But I couldn't catch

952
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:42.639
him here.

953
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.400
Well, and I'm glad he brought up You know, maybe

954
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.559
we're bringing stuff in with us too, because we know,

955
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:55.760
or going by what the clients have told us, we're

956
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:59.800
going in there thinking there is activity, there's a ghost

957
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:06.519
that so it kind of reinforces for me and maybe

958
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:11.280
for you too, to do a cleansing on yourself and

959
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:16.440
rid yourself of anything as best you can anyways before

960
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.880
you go into do an investigation, because I've never even

961
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:25.280
thought that in the least that I'm bringing something into it.

962
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:28.719
I mean, you know, you figure Catholic priests, you know,

963
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:32.519
they take the time to pray and to submit to

964
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:34.599
the Lord to become clan ste for walking in to

965
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:37.840
do an exorcism. We see the certain thing through a

966
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.639
number of different Christians throughout the various denominations that do

967
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:44.079
the same thing. Uh, you know, and you're right. So

968
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:47.280
often we walk out of a investigation off of the

969
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:52.119
quote unquote hundred property and our first thing is, whoever's here,

970
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:54.800
whoever we were talking to, you cannot come home with me.

971
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.920
This is personal space. You can't pass this, you know,

972
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:02.239
property line, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, we rarely

973
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.000
I mean I personally like you, I've never even thought

974
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:07.800
of walking into a place and saying, hey, whoever's here

975
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.320
with me, you cannot come out of this property, right.

976
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:15.440
I mean, yes, we've done prayers, we've done light cleansings,

977
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:18.840
you know, like shielding things like that to protect ourselves.

978
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:21.119
But that's just to protect ourselves. Like it kind of

979
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.559
blew my mind, you know, in this conversation here tonight,

980
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:30.920
because it's like we rarely go in thinking protecting the client.

981
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:35.480
Client right, right, or just supposedly already there right.

982
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:39.480
And sadly, we see a lot of investigators, especially on TV,

983
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.880
who walk in without doing that and then they provoke,

984
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.079
and then they walk away without doing anything about it.

985
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.960
And now these people are stuck with they provoked entity

986
00:54:48.159 --> 00:54:52.679
who's a little upset, and it's like, okay, well now

987
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:53.400
what do we do?

988
00:54:54.639 --> 00:55:00.840
And I absolutely love that the past couple investigators that

989
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:08.440
we've had on now, Richard and Darryl say, well, Daryl

990
00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:11.159
didn't say this, but Richard said I rarely provoke anymore.

991
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:14.000
I don't think. I think Darryl said he has never provoked,

992
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:16.760
or maybe he said I used to he did earlier

993
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:20.320
than he stopped. Yeah, okay, okay, so I'm I'm glad

994
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.880
everybody that's a paranormal investigator has gone through the evolution

995
00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:29.960
of starting out, not that you should start out that way,

996
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:33.920
let me put that out there, but gone from you know,

997
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:37.360
provoking to realizing that is not doing anybody any good?

998
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:38.039
Right?

999
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:45.920
Any other final thoughts thinking about this or I.

1000
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.599
Don't think so, yeah, No, I don't think so.

1001
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:53.079
Okay, Well, we want to hear what you guys think,

1002
00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:56.360
so make sure that you put it in the comments below.

1003
00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:01.079
Email us Paratruth Radio which email dot com. You can

1004
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:04.079
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1005
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:12.280
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1006
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:15.679
Make sure that you like, share, subscribe wherever you listen

1007
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.320
or watch in this particular case now that we're doing video,

1008
00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:23.199
and check out any of the shows that are on

1009
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:28.400
United Public Radio Network. Again, this was a pre recorded

1010
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:32.760
show for one of seven point seven FM New Orleans

1011
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:37.880
and United Public Radio Network until next week where you

1012
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:41.760
will find us, same time, same channel. My name is

1013
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:44.320
Justin and I'm Eric Peace.