The Mystery of the 3 Jacks

0:03 Welcome. Well, well, do parah. Truth Truth, what's going on? Paratruthers. Welcome to a brand new episode of Paratruth Reborn. My name is Justin and I'm Eric, and today is our Halloween episode. So Happy Halloween, everybody.

0:48 Happy Halloween, Eric. Happy Halloween to you. We've been waiting a whole year for this day. Yeah, I don't remember if we even Well, no, we didn't do a Halloween episode year. We were going to. That was the plan because we had we had uh decided to start a break in August and I was like, well, we'll come back for Halloween episodes. At that point, we were going to do you know, a couple of episodes here and there over the year when something significant would happen in the media regarding the paranormal world, and then we just didn't do it. Yeah. So so well, before we get into the topics for today, what are you going for Halloween this year?

1:31 Well, I'm going as a dragon because I have to go as a dragon. My niece's request. Dragons and unicorns. Dragons and unicorns. Yes, the guys are dragons and the girls are unicorns. No specific reason, just because she wanted. Yeah, that's what she wanted. It was, uh, well that's what she wanted originally. That was like back in August she decided that. And of course last month she decided she wanted to do something dressed like a witch or something, but my sister told her no, she had already made up her mind. She got her unicorn outfit and that's what we're doing. So yeah, so unicorns and dragons. My mask is on its way. Oh I did not get the wings like my brother in law.

2:18 Oh I was cheap. Yeah, we're not sure what we're doing yet. We're probably just going to recycle some costumes and hand out candy. This year, this will be the first time we actually do that. So nice. Oh good. I mean we always end up handing out candy, like at the end of the night we go out trigg or treating for like an hour or two, however long the girls can hand it. You know, they're two and three years old. So if it's cold night like last year was really cold, both my nieces are turning blue after about an hour. So depending on when we get back, we usually head back to the house and we build a little bonfire outside. We'll pass out some candy, hang out with some neighbors, and of course every year my brother in law makes basically his own homemade hard apple citer alcoholic apple cider. So we go around the town drinking that. We basically trade alcoholic drinks with neighbors and yeah, it's a good time, trade alcohola drink. Yeah, it's the thing, man, it's it's a good time.

3:21 Well, the only neighbor we have is ninety three and she usually doesn't drink, so probably won't be a thing for us. But all right, today we are going to be talking about the mysterious, the mystery of the three Jacks. Now, we've done an episode about this, I think twice on Paratruth now, but we wanted a resurrective for Paratruth be born because it's just an interesting set of circumstances that these three particular jacks are very spooky in nature. Now, the first Jack that we had talked about last time, I decided to keep him for this time is Stingy Jack. Now, if you don't know the legend of Stingy Jack, it's kind of an interesting one. On a chilly night in a quaint Irish village, a notorious drunkard named Stingy Jack resided.

4:20 His infamy for trickery resonated through twisted alleys and dimly lit pubs, reaching far beyond the Emerald Hills. Even the devil heard whispers of his name. On one fateful night, the devil's burning curiosity drew him up from the dark fiery depths to engage with Jack. Being a wily rogue with a taste for mischief, Jack invited the devil for a pint at a local pub. They savored the bitter ale as the moon climbed higher in the night sky. But when the bill arrived, Stingy Jack, with a twinkle of deceit in his eyes, convinced the devil to morph into a shiny coin for the payment. However, instead of setting the bill, Jack pocketed the coin next to a silver cross, trapping the devil. After an agonizing stint in Jack's pocket, the devil was finally freed under the condition that he would leave Jack untouched for a year. With no other choice. The devil begrudgingly agreed. As the seasons changed and the leaves turned, a year swiftly flew by, and the devil emerged from the shadows. Jack cleverly persuaded the devil to climb a gnarled old tree for a juicy crimson apple. Once he ascended, Jack swiftly etched across into the rough bark, trapping the devil once more, this

5:51 time with a voice trembling with the rage. In despair, the devil vowed to leave Jack untouched for ten more years. Yet fate had other plans, and Jack found himself facing death soon after. Heaven denied Jack entry for his sinful, mischievous life, and Hell, still bound by the devil's bow, reluctantly did the same. Yet with a mocking gesture of the devil toss Jack a single burning ember from the fiery pits to light his way through the eternity dark eternal darkness. With a flicker of his cunning Jack followed, Oh, I'm sorry, hollowed out and old turn up, placed the ember within, and began his endless rome on Earth, marking the inception of you guessed it, the Jack O'Lantern. Now, when I first heard this legend, and even before I actually kind of read this, I had discovered that Jack o' lanterns were originally turn ups. Do you know why they ended up as Jack o' lanterns, Eric.

7:02 You mean as to why their jack lanterns today or yes, as we know them. As we know them, I mean, aside from the fact that the pumpkins grow, they're they're indigenous to North America. That's exactly the reason the programs came over Boom. They decided they found out actually that the pumpkin had a much more stable platform to actually carve faces into. So that's why they ended up stopping their turn out. That they stopped the turn up. There's still plenty of people overseas who still carved turnips just for you know, history's sake. But yeah, the pumpkin was just a better successor, if you will.

7:42 Yeah. Well, and turnips grow much more predominantly in Ireland because of the climate there, but I'm sure they've adopted pumpkins in surge areas. Yeah, So this was an interesting tale. You know, the Irish are known for their captivating tales, and the story of Sandy Jack is no exception, of course, giving rise to numerous renditions over time. I actually did one as a short story. Maybe I'll post that for you guys to see as well, because it's a pretty good story. In my opinion. This tale spurred the tradition of carving faces into turnips, beets, and potatoes, along among the Irish, who placed these eerie visages on windowsills hoping to ward off Sandy Jack and other wandering spirits. The tradition sailed across the Atlantic with Irish immigrants scanning popularity, especially during the potato famine era. So that's where this kind of all took place, bringing it to the US, and then we started doing pumpkins for that particular reason, the potato famine, and also pumpkins grew naturally here it was a little bit easier to get them, and as Eric said, it was easier to carve them as well.

9:05 When when we first did this episode, had you heard the story or had you heard that it was originally turn ups before pumpkins. No, I mean, growing up, I always thought it was pumpkins. I didn't know until we started Para Truth and started you know, or not even Paratruth. But honestsuming back when we were still doing Night Stalkers is when we first. Really think that's when we first found about the turn up. I don't know if youah heard the Cingy Jack story or not. Stdy Jack. You know what, I can't remember necessarily either. The only the only one that I showed it I remember from way back then was our Crampis episode, a Christmas episode. But yes, stingy, I think it was probably like twenty fourteen. I guess that is my earliest recollection of learning about it.

9:47 All right, Yeah, and that same I remember kind of learning turn ups. It might have been during Night Soccers, not really sure. And then we when we did our Halloween episode for Paratruth, we found out the reason why we have the Jack o' lantern legend and why we use Jack o' lanterns. I always knew that it was because to ward off the evil spirits from Halloween, but and I didn't look this up. You might know this better than I. Halloween all howls eve. The only reason really we really do it that time of the year is because the veil is supposed to be thinner.

10:34 Correct, supposedly supposedly. So interesting little story for you guys, that one of my favorites for Halloween, on top of the other two Jacks that we're going to talk about here. But Eric, I'll hand it over you for the next Jack. Sure, So we're gonna head on over to spring Here held at Jack. The legend of springhil Jack. This is one that I think is by far one of the most interesting stories, because this isn't just a typical tale, this is actually this is actually like there's eyewitness accounts. This was in the news, you know, back in the eighteen thirties. So I find it really interesting. We'll talk more about it at the end, get some ideas or thoughts what this person or entity was, And of course we're gonna want to hear your thoughts too, by the way, So at any moment or anytime we'll be in chat, you can feel free to add in your little thoughts or if you have any knowledge behind this and what the truth is, we'd love to hear that too. So anyway, the legend of spring Heeled Jack. It was about late September of eighteen thirty seven when the first sighting of spring Heeled Jack was first reported. Now, a businessman was turning home late at night in London when he was terrified by the figure of a man who took a huge leap with ease over the high railings of Barnes Cemetery. Now, the mysterious figure landed directly in front of him, but luckily,

12:08 the stunt businessman was not attacked. He was able, however, to give up full description of a muscular man of devilish features that included large pointed ears and a nose and protruding glowing eyes. Whatever protruding glowing eyes is, Like, this is a weird thing. I don't know if they're saying pointed ears and a nose and protruding as in the noses protruding or as in protruding glowing eyes, that's a weird one. It would be freaky, I think, regardless. But I'm guessing it's talking about the eyes and a lot of the and a lot of the depictions of spring hiel Jack.

12:50 His eyes are kind of bulging. Okay, Okay. So not long after this bizarre encounter, another incident occurred where poll Adams and her two best friends were attacked by similar creature. And I want to really examine this keyword creature here, so hold on to that as which was a creature in which attacked the businessman in front of the cemetery, Only this time there was an actual attack. Polly was separated from her friends who ran away, and the muscular man of out of parents, tore at her clothing and scratched her stomach with what she later described as iron clad fingers. Now I want to also say iron clad. The word clad here is interesting.

13:37 Hi guys, my cat's just showed up m kitten, So if you hear them on in the Background'm sorry. The word iron clad I think is interesting because the word clad here, I think also represents cold, as you'll see in some other depictions here his hands often are described as being very cold. So anyway, Later in October of eighteen thirty seven in London, a servant called Mary Stevens was walking to Lavender Hill, where she worked, after visiting her parents in Battersea. Now, when she reached Clapham Common, a strange figure leapt from a dark alley. He managed to trap her within his arms, and, as with Polly Adams, the creature there's the word again, scratched at her with claw like hands that were cold and clammy as those of a corpse. Frightened out of her wits, Mary screamed, which brought some rescuers running to her aid and her attacker running into the night. Now these attacks did not go unnoticed, of course, by the press, and it was not long until the attacker was given a number of names, but two of the which that were most famous was the Park Ghost and spring heeled Jack, which of course stuck.

14:52 Now there were really even official recognition of the attacks, with Surge John Cohen, lord Mayor of London at the time, discussing incidents at a public house session on the ninth of January of eighteen thirty eight. Now it does appear that he was very mistrustful of many reports, as he believed they had been greatly exaggerated, But nonetheless these are his words that he had said. It appears that some individuals have laid a wager with a mischievous and foolhardy companion that he durst not take upon himself the task of visiting many of the villages near London in three different disguises, a ghost, a bear, and a devil, and moreover, that he will not enter a gentleman's gardens for the purpose of alarming the inmates of the house. The wager has however, been accepted, and the unmanly villain has succeeded in depriving seven ladies of their senses too, of whom will are unlikely to ever recover, but to become burdens to their families. Instead, not one of the houses, the man rang a bell, and on the servant coming to open the door, this worse than brute, stood in no less dreadful figure than that of a specter clad most perfectly.

16:22 The consequence was that the poor girl immediately swooned and has never from that moment been in her senses. The affair has now been going on for some time, and strange to say, the papers are still silent on the subject. The writer has reason to believe that they have the whole story or the whole history at their finger ends, but through interested motives, are induced to remain silent. So here's a little something we've talked about many times, and that's the idea of a conspiracy. In this case, it's in regard to various medias papers in this case withholding information trying to hide it from the public eye for one reason or another, probably to refrain from creating some sort of mass hysteria. Did they know more than they then they let on? Most likely who this character was.

17:15 Nobody really knows, but the fact that this character was capable of basically scaring women a couple of women so much so that they would never recover, they would basically lie ill for the rest of their lives. Is an interesting thing, and it tells me it's potentially something more than just human that would have done the scaring. Now, back then, things are a lot different. There was a lot of superstition, of course in the eighteen hundreds, superstition that was much more readily availed, that readily available, but I guess are taken more seriously than it is today. And so something like a person who's even dressed funny, like the devil in this case, or a ghost or a bear, you know, might get a bigger reaction than what we might get today if that same person, you know, notch on our door right now. There have been There were a number of letters that came in from all over London, each one telling of a wicked pranks. London was being terrified by an unknown assailant, and the mayor tried to reassure the people of London by telling them that the fugitive would be caught. The Times newspaper went on to print a story from the Brighton Gazette in April fourteenth of eighteen thirty eight, telling the story of a gardener in rose Hill, Sussex, on the thirteenth of April,

18:48 about a creature in which it was the shape of a bear or some other four footed animal, which I think is curious. It growled loudly, getting the gardener's attention pretty quickly. It then climbed onto a garden wall, running along the top of it on all four feet. It leapt down off the wall and then proceeded to chase the terrified gardener for a quick some time until it was until it once more scaled the garden wall and ran off. Now to think that this creature is all the same person or entity as possible a bear running along the wall sounds a little weird. Actually this kind of stuff for me when I'm picturing it, I'm starting to picture like a wolfman type of character climbing the walls, running along the top of it, and you know, leaping onto people. Now, there are three accounts there that we do want to talk about, or at least two, so Jane Elsups and Lucy Scales. So Jane els Up. It was about late in the evening of February twentieth of a eighteen thirty eight when the eighteen year old Jane also answered her father's front door to a man claiming to be a London policeman. As she opened the door, he yelled out to her, for God's sake, bring me a light, for we have caught spring hel jack in the lane. She ran back into the house, grabbing a candle,

20:19 and as she ran toward the strange man, she noticed that he was wearing a long, dark cloak, and as she handed him the candle, he threw the cloak from his shoulders and began to spit out blue flames, blue and white flames from his mouth. The man grabbed hold of the petrified girl and started to claw at her with his sharp fingers. It was luckily Jane screaming for help that brought her sister running to her side and dragged Jane inside to her father's house. One of the strangest parts of the story was that as soon as the door was slammed shut, the attacker actually knocked on the door again, waiting for a response, but eventually left when no one did. Now. Very similar to this account is that of Lucy Scales, which occurred eight days later on the twenty eighth of February in eighteen thirty eight, when Lucy Scales was attacked around eight thirty pm, also as eighteen years old. She and her sister had just finished visiting with her butcher brother living in the Limehouse. Now, as Lucy and her sister passed a Green Dragon alley, they noticed a man standing at the entrance. As the two girls got close, they noticed the man was wearing a long, dark cloak, and then all of a sudden, he grabbed Lucy and vomited a quantity of blue flame into her shocked face, blinding her and frightening her so badly that she suffered seizures like fits. Now Charles Pritchell

21:51 would later say that she was suffering from hysterics and great agitation in all the probability the result of fright. So, now that we're here at the end of this story, I think it's really interesting because we have a devil, a bear, a ghost, and a creature dressed in a cloak that spits fire that blinds people but doesn't burn them apparently. I mean, there's really no explanation, Like I can't even think of an idea of what this could be other than like some sort of trickster spirit. So then we're kind of moving out the realm necessarily of some sort of cryptid or entity or human being that is doing these things, especially capable and manifesting in a number of different ways, it would seem, assuming it's all the same entity. Now, I think there's a lot of potential as to what this blue flame is if it was indeed a human being doing this, especially at least for the first story in terms of Jane Elso she brought a candle out and this person had alcohol in their mouth waiting for her, he very well could have blue on the candle and create kind of a you know, a flamethrower effect, and depending on the type of alcohol the person's using, it could turn the flame blue instead of your typical orange or red. So there is that

23:22 possibility for trying to debunk this. However, as far as we know, there was no fire available during Lucy's Scale's account aside from that which came from his mouth and the fact that it didn't burn her but did blind her tells us it was very bright and either a was just super bright and that's it, or B it was some sort of chemical that affected her eyes but not her skin. So you know what these creatures, this creature or a person could really be is beyond me aside from some sort of trickster spirit. What are your thoughts on all of this? Well, I mean mean some of it can can be explained away. I mean I mean people with with not nails, but like metal gloves that have sharpened fingertips and stuff like that could explain that. The claws or claw like hands scratching. You already mentioned somebody having alcohol in their mouth and blowing on a flame causing a blue flame.

24:29 A lot of magicians could could probably pull off a lot of these particular acts without it being able to be explained per se. But the animal like creatures and the quote unquote devil, it is a little odd. It could have been somebody in a costume, but if it was running at the speed of these animals, highly. Unlikely, especially on four legs. Unfortunate, right, And not that humans can't do that, we just don't, right, So Yeah, it's it's an odd tale.

25:20 But interestingly enough, like you said, it is brought up in the newspapers and the media is there, So yeah, an odd tale. I had kind of known of Spring hil Jack prior to us doing the episode years ago, but I didn't know all the legends until we had actually gone over them. Right. Well, you know, during the time, there were quite a few other ideas of what this thing could have been. You know, everyone was trying to figure out whether it was an animal or person or otherwise. And one of my favorite things here that I did find was that there was some speculation that the culprit behind all of this was actually a deranged kangaroo. Yes, it was a deranged kangaroo that was jumping over things and attacking people.

26:18 Now they didn't specify as to why or how it would have been spitting fire, but in a way, yeah, I could see a jumping kangaroo, people seeing it as kind of a devilish figure with pointed ears and a pointed nose. But even still it seems like a weird thing, especially in London. Yeah. Well, I mean I believe we had zoos around back then. It's possibly escaped or circus even. Well, even just it could have just been even like someone rich. You know, and at that time, England was the ruling body.

27:02 I think technically they are still kind of the ruling body in Australia. If you're in Australia. Please correct me on that. I do apologize. I don't know the the politics of Australia and England. But back then they were probably I believe, still the ruling body of Australia, so there would have been that possibility for them to get a hold of kangaroo and the blue flame that could have just been somebody's fear taking hold if it was a kangaroo during kangaroo a rabid kangaroo. But I don't know like that the description of a bear. That would have had to have been a really fat kangaroo, right.

27:56 I remain on all fours at all times. As likely, and I think the only time they travel like that is when they're moving slowly, not. And there's no mention of a giant tail or, you know, anything. Right, But then again, you know, once again, who's the cloak figure. It wasn't a kangaroo dressing in a cloak, spitting fire little you know, eighteen year old woman's hair face. I mean, unless unless there was some sort of evolution pattern that you know, died off since then. But yeah, it's an interesting one and and I don't know it's one of those ones too where it's hard to wipe away any all possibilities of a supernatural being.

28:49 It can be debunked to a certain extent, but mh unsure for sure. Right. Yeah, So again, I don't think either of us really knew anything about Cindy Jack prior to doing our Halloween episode years ago. And interestingly enough, spring hil Jack is also a comic book character in Marvel Comics, I believe, But I don't think he has jumping abilities or anything like that. So I don't know why they call him spring hil Jack other than he's from the UK. Yeah, and there is I mean, there is a connection there, and what that connection is exactly, I don't know, but yeah, he has become a superhero.

29:35 Since apparently Eric has ghosts today or cats running into glass. All right, So last Jack, if you don't know this name, I do encourage you to google this because it's one of those learning type experiences as well. So Jack the Ripper. Now, if you don't know Jack the Ripper, here's a little bit of history on Jack the Ripper. He was a serial killer back in the late eighteen hundreds. He was linked to specifically five murders of women. They were I believe all of the we'll just say street walking variety of women. There were others some dozen murders between eighteen eighty eight and eighteen ninety two that the authorities thought that could have been Jack the Ripper, but they never identified that there was a connection, nor did they ever find Jack the Ripper.

30:54 But the. So called five canonical five victims were Mary Ann Nichols, whose body was found on August thirty first, Annie Chapman, whose found September eighth, Elizabeth Stride who was found on September thirtieth, and Catherine Kate Edows found September thirtieth, and Mary Jane Kelly November ninth. According to common assumption of the time, all the victims were prostitutes, as I said, Kelly were. I'm sorry Kelly was murdered while soliciting on the street. That belief was subsequently taken for granted in books about the crimes, which typically offered conjectures as to the true identity of Jack the Ripper and reported graphic details of the murderers. He committed, Jack the Ripper, I feel it should be synonymous with murder. If you haven't heard of him before. It was a very time in England and the I believe it was during the steam era at that time. There are people that believe that Jack the Ripper was actually an American who came to England had mutilated these women. In each instance, the victim's throat was cut and the body was usually mutilated in

32:25 a manner, indicating that the murder had at least some knowledge or the murderer had some knowledge of human anatomy, so they believed he had a doctorate of some kind. One occasion, half of a human kidney was removed, which may have been extracted from the murder victim, but they weren't sure, and was mailed to the police. The authorities also received a series of taunting notes from a person calling himself Jack the Ripper and reporting to be the murderer. I do believe he at one point also left a message on a wall at one of the murder scenes.

33:06 I don't know. I don't know about the wall. I do know that there was despite the fact that he supposedly sent in mail. In fact, the whole reason he even got the name Jack the Ripper was because somebody who had sent in mail claiming that he was the killer had signed it with the name Jack, and then Jack the Ripper came into play. But there were a speculation that it was actually the newspaper, certain individuals within the newspaper who were making up these letters and sending them so that they can get more attention later on and helped guide people's eyes to this paper and get more sales. So whether or not it was actually Jack the Ripper or just a ploy by the local newspaper to sell paper is still out for debate.

33:56 Do you know why whoever it was chose the name Jack. No, because nobody figured out who it was. They never came forward, they never said, but just based on I think the paper that was used and the way something that was written or something the police had speculated, there was a good chance it was just the paper, someone from them. Not that the paper themselves said hey go do this, but somebody out of their own, on their own time, from the paper ended up sending in these things, possibly just for fun. Well, I can tell you what they speculated. Why they that he called himself Jack, okay, because that was a common name back then for a man got it. And then the Ripper of course, because of the mutilated bodies.

34:46 Now the most common sighted suspects are Montague drew It, a barrister and the teacher with an interest in surgery, who was said to be insane and who disappeared after the final murder and was later found dead. Michael Ostrog, a Russian criminal physician who had been placed in an asylum because of his homicidal tendencies. And Aaron Kaziminski, a Polish Jew and a resident of Whitechapel who was known to have a great animus toward women, particularly prostitutes, who was hospitalized in an asylum several months after the last murder.

35:31 Several notable Londoners of the era, such as the painter Walter Sickert and the physician Sir William Gall also have been some subjects of such speculation. The murder sites have become the locus of macabre tourist industry in London. And if I remember correctly, almost all of these murders, except for one or two, happened in the Whitechapel district. So they suspected a Jew because of that fact, which is shows how much prejudice there there was even back then for Jewish people. Now, why did we choose these three jacks?

36:17 Basically just the stories themselves, but interestingly they all have kind of a spiritual connection because there was this speculation that Jack the Ripper wasn't necessarily insane but possessed as well, and kind of sort of sounds similar to spring Heel Jack, except for I don't think they ever described him as jumping over walls in a single bound or anything like that, just because he targeted women right and was terrorizing the area at the time. Well, and I myself was drawing some some lines to spring Hill Jack, between Jack the Ripper and spring Hill Jack.

37:02 But at the same time, it's also a fifty year difference here, So if the Ripper was indeed the same person, he would probably be in his sixties or seventies at the earliest, or the youngest, you know, assuming spring Hill Jack was a young man or woman, because we really don't know even know if Jackie Ripper was a man, you know, but yeah, you know, so there are definitely some lines drawn there, But that fifty year difference is it's a big that's a big number. Well, and it shows the sexism of the times too, because there I'm sure there was plenty of women that would have known anatomy back then. But it wasn't in their class to know all that ORB doctors for that matter.

37:52 Yeah, well, and also like you know someone signed it Jack. Hey, I know plenty of women named Jacqueline who go by Jack. Right. He's like that could have been a good you know, maybe she was trying to push them off and made them think it was a man, really throw them off her trail. But there are a lot that believe that A. JH. Holmes was Jack the Ripper as well. There is, yeah, there is, and you know, there's some good similarities there as well. The only problem is the murders of Jack the Ripper were actually happening at the same time that Jhlmes was committing burds in the US, so that kind of debunks that.

38:32 But was it like the exact same dates. Even if it wasn't, the only way to get from point A to point B was the c and that would have taken weeks, so they were pretty close some of those murders. Okay, we had had a guest on when we had first done this this episode that claimed he knew who who Jack the Ripper was. I don't know that we were either of us were convinced that that was the case, but. No, I wasn't convinced, but it was definitely an interesting It was an interesting suggestion, and you know, some of the evidence seemed to be sufficient and others are like they're kind of pulling there, I felt like. But for anyone who's interested in actually checking out that episode, if you want to know who might be Jack Ripper, you can just go into spreaker or you know, wherever you find a podcast and just under the search type in Jack the Ripper and it'll come up. It's called Jack Ripper Mystery Solved with Randy Williams. I believe he wrote a book on that, or maybe it was I can't remember it was a book or it was just a publication that he had online.

39:42 I think it was just an online thing, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, but yeah, so yeah, definitely checked that episode out. It was an interesting conversation, I'll say that because it was one that a theory I had never heard before. And yeah, I think with the spring Hill Jack thing, I think that's kind of why I linked it to this particular episode. We did not to mention three particular cases or not cases stories where it involves somebody named Jack. Now, yes, Jack the Ripper was a real serial killer. Uh, spring Hill Jack was reported in the newspapers. Stingy Jack. It's just a tale as far as we know, right, But anything else we need to add about the Three.

40:47 Jacks, No, not in particular, I don't think, you know. I feel like when it comes to the tale of Stingy Jack, you know, it's it's an interesting one considering the Jack o' lanterns beginning or original story, which, by the way, for anyone who doesn't know, Jack o lantern actually means Jack of the lantern, and so in that case it is Stingy Jack who is of his lantern, who has his lantern. That's where we kind of get that name from. But with many various belief systems out there, again, some will say that Jack Lantern was created because of Southwyn to ward off evil spirits. Specifically, this particular legend comes from the Irish, but there are other legends that come from other areas around the world. Now we can of course go in and do the history track and see which one was proclaimed earliest, But in the end, I don't think it really matters because of what we know of it today. I mean, today most people carve lanterns because they're fun. There's meant to be a part of the commercialism of Halloween. But I think I love about ours. What about us and about the people people that we are friends with within the paranormal world. Is how much history and realism there actually is within Halloween, because it's not about the commercialism only for us, you

42:18 know it was growing up. But now when I'm sitting in front of a bonfire on Halloween's night, Halloween night, or and I'm carving a pumpkin, I'm thinking about the history of why bonfires were lit on the night of Slut and why the pumpkins were placed on window sills or in front of houses. I'm thinking of why we give out candy, you know, based on the Catholic origin of giving out food on Halloween nights. So there's a lot of really interesting and rich history within Halloween that I think is important to hold on to and understand while still being able to enjoy the festivities of the holiday.

43:00 Oh for sure, the one thing that I had to chuckle at about the legend of Cindy Jack was how stupid the devil was portrayed. Yes, that's you know, that was something I thought about as well, this menace, you know, the devil obviously in many cultures, not just Christianity, has been really recognized and of course we'll say demons for some because some don't recognize the devil but recognize demons. But the way that they're recognized as being, you know, mischievous militia, being just downright evil and so wise beyond understanding. They're the triggers.

43:45 They're the one who, you know, weave the pattern for people to fall into sin or death or whatever it is that they're doing based on your belief system or culture that you live in. And yet to see a person who was able to convince the devil to climb a tree and get him an apple, like, I think it was done on purpose by somebody who created that story to be little the idea of. The devil represent the pride that the devil has too that he can't be. Say also, yeah, that is also a possibility, And I mean that kind of goes along the line just so many things that we've seen within pop culture of the devil.

44:26 One of my favorite songs is the Devil Went down to Georgia. You know that one kind of portrays his pride and why he felt he lost, you know, the battle that he was in, and it was due to his pride. He thought he was better, no one could have outbeat him at playing music, because that's what he was created to do. But then in this. Case he did lose. So yeah, you're right. It probably does kind of refer in some sense to how pride always comes before the fall, if you will. But nonetheless, to be tricked twice is interesting. Yeah, That's what caught my eye out of that entire story, was just the fact that not just once, but twice, and both times with a cross.

45:20 Well, you know, and and here's the other thing that I thought, and maybe I'm maybe I'm thinking too much into it, but like you can't climb down the tree because the cross is embedded in the tree, But can you not jump off the tree to the ground because you're no longer touching the tree. Therefore, anything that is surrounding the cross that isn't the tree isn't actually considered you know. Not only that, but a tree has multiple sides across all the way around the base of the tree. The jack we're gonna have to We're gonna have to when I whenever I die many many, many, many, many many years. You know down b Bne, I'm going to go find the creator, Cindy Jack. I'm gonna start poking holes in all his little his story.

46:08 I hate to tell you, but he's probably dead. Are you talking about your soul is going to go meet? Yeah? Interesting tale. I love the tale, and to kind of learn where the jack O lantern kind of got its origin is just awesome, just because I think both of us have loved Halloween from a very young age. Not too many kids don't, but. Very few continue to love it as they grow up. It's very true, very true. All right, folks, that ends October already incredible. I hope you guys enjoyed this. We got a lot more stuff coming, so stay tuned. Next month, we'll just be kind of doing some random paranormal stuff because there isn't a whole lot that has to do with Thanksgiving in the paranormal. I might revisit a couple of our old episodes for that too.

47:13 Yeah, I mean, off the top of my head, I'm thinking of a few that we've gone over the years for November that I think will be fun. But I know the next episode are going to do, and it's all about UFOs and aliens, so that'll be of course a fun episode, so keep in tune for that. A lot of things happening lately over the course of the year in terms of UFO sightings, so you know something to look forward to. I think that's going to just become more and more prominent within our lives. Absolutely, and that's something I mentioned to you about that episode is even if we do not do it right away, guess what, we've got all got smartphones who are all taking videos. Now, there's gonna be a lot more to talk about. So until next week, folks, where you will find us the same time, same channel. My name is Justin and I'm Eric Pace.