Sept. 28, 2025

Whispers In Porcelain: Inside Fiona Dodwell's Cursed Doll Cases

Whispers In Porcelain: Inside Fiona Dodwell's Cursed Doll Cases
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You love a good ghost story—but you want more than campfire tales. You want to know if haunted objects, especially dolls, could really hold something sinister.

The world is filled with eerie stories about dolls that move on their own, whisper in the night, or bring misfortune to anyone who owns them. But how do you know what’s real and what’s myth? Without answers, you’re left with only fear and questions.

This week, ParaTruth: Reborn is joined by Fiona Dodwell—freelance journalist, author, and lifelong explorer of the unknown. Fascinated by the paranormal since childhood, Fiona has studied Theology, Applied Paranormal Research, Demonology, and Exorcism. With a particular passion for haunted objects, she has dedicated her career to separating folklore from fact.

Together, we’ll open the cabinet of curiosities in Fiona’s new book, A Cursed Collection of Haunted Dolls. From the most chilling cases to the psychology behind why these objects terrify us, Fiona walks us through how to approach haunted dolls with both curiosity and caution.

By the end of this episode, you’ll know how to tell a story from a genuine case—and whether that doll sitting on the shelf is simply a toy… or something more. Don’t just listen to the stories—discover the truth behind them. Press play on Whispers in Porcelain: Inside Fiona Dodwell’s Cursed Doll Cases.

Bio: Fiona Dodwell is a freelance journalist and author who has been fascinated with the paranormal since childhood. She studied Theology, Applied Paranormal Research, Demonology, and Exorcism. Fiona has a particular fascination with haunted objects.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/paratruth-reborn--6273542/support.

Thanks for listening!

WEBVTT

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Welcome, we go, well do para truth Truth? How's it

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going Paratruthers Welcome to a brand new episode of Paratruth Reborn.

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My name is Justin. Some toys are meant to be cuddled,

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but others cry. Us Presidency can't explain. Dolls that whisper

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stare and even move on their own have terrified families

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for generations. So today we're talking to Fiona Dodwell about

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her book A Curse Collection of Hanta Dolls to help

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guide us through on how to handle these toys. Fiona

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is a freelance journalist and author who has been fascinated

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with the paranormal since childhood. She studied theology, applied paranormal research, demonology,

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and exorcism, and has a particular fascination with haunted objects. Fiona,

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Welcome to Paratruth Reborn.

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Thanks for having me on.

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So a lot of people would ask why haunted or

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cursed dolls.

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It's just something that really gripped me. I guess it

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could go way back when you look at the Annabelle

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case in the seventies, that's obviously the first big case

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that gripped everyone. So I always had that story in

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my mind, and it was something that unsettled me. And

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then it was in twenty fifteen when Peggy the Doll

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made headlines across the mainstream media, when people began reporting

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feeling ill when they saw even just pictures Beggy. So

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it was around that time, sort of twenty fifteen, where

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I kind of dive into the subject and it's kind

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of like gripped me ever since really, and I just

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spent a lot of time reading, learning, studying, and interviewing

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people who have experiences with it, and it's just been

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a really fascinating journey for me.

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So what means you want to write the book about it?

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I wanted to put something together that was a comprehensive

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guide to the subject because what I know that there's

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a whole wealth of material out there for general paranormal

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things like haunted houses, poltergeis, stemonic possession. I thought the

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whole subject and idea of a haunted object, whether it's

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a doll or an antique or a piece of jewelry,

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I thought that that wasn't really an aspect of the

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paranorm that had been studied quite so much. There wasn't

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so much out there. So once I knew how interesting,

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that's fascinating that I found it. I just then decide

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did I wanted to kind of collect everything that I've

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been learning and one sort of the book so that

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other people would have have a chance to read what

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I'd found, and then it's up to them to make

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their judgment really about how they feel about it or

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where they lean forwards believing.

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Okay, now, how do you define a cursed or haunt

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a doll compared to just one that has like a

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spooky backstory.

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Yeah, I mean that's that's the big question really, because

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I think I think Hollywood or films, like the whole

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theme in horror in general, has given us this idea

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of a freaky doll that you know, it can walk

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and it can talk, and it's it's very dramatic, and

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it almost kind of in a sense, makes a caricature

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of the subject. And so I think people are really

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what the reality could actually be like. And I think

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you have to be careful as well, because you will

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find people online that probably take advantage a little bit

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or here's a spooky doll, and these are the creepy

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things that have happened, and you know, you have to

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tread carefully. But I think the main way you can

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differentiate between a real haunted object or a haunted doll

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against one that isn't is time and experience. So somebody

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can give you a background and a history and plant

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those ideas in your heads, but I think the best

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way you can verify that is your own time and

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your own experience. Much like you would with visiting a

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haunted property. You can hear all the legends around it

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that surround that place, but until you've found that experience

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yourself to kind of validate or perhaps refute, even then

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it's hard to make that distinction. So I think it's

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a case of knowing what you're looking for and knowing

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what you're likely to experience with a haunted object and

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looking for that your self. If you come into contact

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with an object you think could be haunted, it's kind

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of working through that and seeing what you're finding with

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your own experience and senses.

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Now, I mean, this is a fascinating subject for me

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just because of you know, I followed the Warren's career

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as as an adult, so it's interesting to you know,

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see the movies, read their books and stuff like that,

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and then you know kind of learn some of the

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truth behind the cases, because both books and the movies

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were a little dramatized a little bit. But what is

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your vedding process before you start looking at a case

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and interviewing people about whatever they're saying is haunted.

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I think it's case for individual. So I spoke to

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some notable people, like from Within the Parallel you had

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hands on experience, and I knew that they'd had quite

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significant encounters. It's people like Jane Harris, for example, from

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Help My House Is Haunted. I interviewed her and spoke

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to her about Peggy the Doll. And you may be

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familiar with Harold the Doll as well. He once made

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an appearance on Ghost Adventures and his owner, Anthony Quinata,

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released a book on him and that. You know, these

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people had such a rich and varied significant experiences that

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I kind of wanted to pick their brains on it

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and get their experiences and their insight into what it

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was like, and also their insight and advice on what

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to look out for. That every case is different, so

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it was more a case of me reaching out. You know,

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I'm across things on this person has had this experience,

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all this person an object that's done, this, this, and this.

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So my main name with the book was to reach

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out speak to these people, kind of collate the information,

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write down their experiences are why they believe the object

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is wanted, and kind of indense that into the book

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and then let the reader decide really how they feel

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about that, because I can't obviously writing an account, I

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can't prove to people, much like anything in the paranormal.

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All you can do, I think is your best by

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presenting what there is and letting people make up their

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own minds. So that's my viewpoint when I was putting

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the book together.

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Okay, now, are there any pieces of evidence, physical or

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behroal evidence that has been more compelling than others or

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even misread.

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I think one thing that I've found particularly compelling was

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with and I know it's a case that some of

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your listeners will probably be familiar with. It's one of

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the famous cases, Robert the Doll. Obviously there's been a

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lot of writing about him, articles and even a series

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of films about Robert. And obviously the background is that

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a maid had given the doll to a child of

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a family, and that the child became convinced that the

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doll was communicating with him, and the doll would move,

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and that some negative things were not necessarily negative, but

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some paranormal activity was the only surrounding the household after

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being given the doll. And I think one thing I

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found quite compelling about this case is that, you know,

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we often read about cases that historical and we can

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go back and see what people have experienced in the past,

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Like with Annabelle, you hear these things and it's all

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secondhand information. But with Robert the doll, one thing that's

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particularly interesting is that they when people visit the doll

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in the museum, it's not uncommon for people to come

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away and feel like they've been affected, that they have

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some kind of bad luck or negative energy surrounding them

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after seeing him, and to the point in the museum

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have actually said themselves, we're receiving may or quite regularly

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visitors saying, you know, with sorry if we did anything

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to bring this on to you know, with sorry, if

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we did anything to disrespect, but we apologize, and we

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just want to try and cut that connection. And that's

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not actually an uncommon thing, and so that was an

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interesting thing. I thought that was quite insightful because you

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know it's an old case, but it seems to be

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having reverberations even now in sort of twenty twenty five,

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so that that was one that stood out to me

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quite a bit.

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Now something that I've questioned quite a bit, and maybe

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people have done this or not, but have you ever

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come across people telling why they didn't, like, just destroy

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the dollar get rid of it'.

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Well I come across that question if he finds during

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my research of the subject. And I think one of

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the reasons, or one of the most significant reasons, is

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that people but because a spirit or an energy, whether

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it's something positive or demonic, I think people frightened that

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it's not necessarily contained to that object. I think there's

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a worry there, much the same as perhaps with wigi boards,

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where there's a bit of a superstitious belief. Perhaps if

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I destroy this item or if I burn it, is

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that actually going to make things worse? Is it going

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to unleash something further? Is it going to anger the spirit?

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So I think it's it's the attitude of not really

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knowing whether that would make something worse or not that

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perhaps makes people fear just going straight into action and

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damaging the item. Or throwing it out because it's it's

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it's new territory. We don't really know just because an

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item has an energy attached to whether that energy actually

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needs to remain with that item or not. So it

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essentially might not even fix anything. So I think there's

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just that nervousness about what to do next. So I

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think most people, at least of what I've read about

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a more comfortable speaking to somebody who has experience of

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dealing with objects like that, you know, like a psychic

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or a medium or even a priest for blessings something

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like that. They call on outside help more often.

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Have you ever come across anybody that kind of has

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an idea why these attachments happen?

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Yeah, I mean it's I had a set of questions

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in my mind that I wanted to find answers to,

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and you know, it includes things like how does a

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doll become haunted? Why would an object have something attached

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to it? So I kind of during my I did

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speak to a lot of people, you know, I did

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do a lot of reading, and I think there are

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a few theories. Really, the most common theories about how

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an object would be haunted is that, particularly with a doll.

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There could be an energy that sees a doll and

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wants to tether itself to something that it sees as

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recognizably human. So, you know, it makes sense. I suppose

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if there is an ability of spirit too inhabit an object,

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it would seem likely they would want to be part

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of something that looks human, that has the facial features

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that might even resemble how they looked in life. There's

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another theory that suggests that perhaps that item itself was

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something that somebody owned and just loved, and so it

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absorbed some of that energy, almost like the stone tape theory.

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This idea that loved and kept for years just might

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absorb some of that energy from a person. And then

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you can go down the other route. You know, was

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the doll used in ritualistic purposes? You know, was a

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curse used with that item, in which case it's not

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like a traditional haunting. It's more a case of somebody

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using that doll and putting to it with a direct

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purpose of causing an effect to somebody. That Those are

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some of the ideas that I've come across, sort of

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the most common ones anyway.

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Okay, now, have you ever been able to debunk a

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doll story, and if you did, what tipped it off?

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Well, the cases that I used in the book were

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the ones that the people that I reached out to

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that I already researched enough to feel like there was

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some validity to it. So in that sense, in terms

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of the ones I included in the book, I'd kind

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of already worked quite thoroughly through who I wanted to

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include in that's in that situation. But just to touch

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upon that subject a little bit, it's not always a

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dishonest thing. When people they are a haunted or cursed

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item take it off my hands. You know, I'd believe

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that some people just might genuinely be that, or might

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have a series of events they attribute to an might

226
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.919
be a fake. So, for example, one thing question reminds

227
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:35.960
me of is that during writing the book, someone reached

228
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.759
out to me and they said, look, since I've found

229
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.559
the doll in an attic, they were clearing out some

230
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:43.879
face in their attic and they found this this doll,

231
00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.080
and they said, look, nothing but bad luck has happened

232
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.600
to me since finding this doll. It's really unnerving me.

233
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.519
You know, I don't want a lot of money or

234
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.440
anything just you know, I'd be more than happy for

235
00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:56.120
you to take it off me. So maybe I was

236
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.720
just completely stupid, but I said, okay, then you know,

237
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:01.679
send it my way and you know, be interesting to

238
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.120
see if anything happens. So I was, you know, quite

239
00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.799
nervous because I thought, you know, I'm inviting this thing

240
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.080
in and that I might experience something similar, something negative.

241
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:15.600
But I spent a lot of time once the doll

242
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.519
arrived sort of doing my own investigation and trying to

243
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.519
sort of explore whether there was any energy. And it's

244
00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.639
been sort of several months into it now and there's

245
00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:29.080
not been a single thing or experience that I can

246
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.000
put down to that doll. But in that case, you know,

247
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:33.879
I'd like to say it's I don't believe that person

248
00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.279
was trying to be decided. They seemed genuinely frightened that

249
00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.240
some bad luck that had happened to them was because

250
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.000
of the doll, and they just wanted the doll gone

251
00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:45.919
and they felt like by sending it to me that

252
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.720
it had become my problem. But not one thing has

253
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.759
happened since, so you have to ask that question, then,

254
00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.879
was there something going on with that particular person rather

255
00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.320
than the object, and you know, much to my relief,

256
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.960
I haven't been with lux owning it, but it's made

257
00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:04.080
a nice dole for my collection.

258
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:11.840
Anyway, now from that person, have you heard anything from

259
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.600
them since like that they're still having that type of

260
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:20.440
situation or that activity has increased since the doll left.

261
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.759
That's an interesting question. Funny enough, I haven't, I think

262
00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:28.679
because things have been so busy promotion and when I

263
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:31.279
was writing the book everything that it was in the

264
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.480
back of my head to do that I wanted to

265
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.799
find out and I haven't yet. Hoping to send a

266
00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.480
message over and just has banks. It would be interesting

267
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.240
to hear if things continued for them or whether it

268
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.240
completely stopped when the dolls one way or the other.

269
00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.080
It would be good to know. So I haven't yet,

270
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.679
but I planned it to find out.

271
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:57.919
Okay, Now, there's so many questions that come to mind,

272
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:03.759
But have you ever have you come across any cases

273
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.119
where you can tell what triggered the activity or what

274
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.480
woke up the doll.

275
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.759
That's quite a hard one to answer, because honestly, from

276
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.839
a lot of the cases I have read, it seems

277
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.880
to be this a series of really but you know,

278
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.000
I mean, I'm somebody. Because I've spent a lot of

279
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.720
time reading and researching. I do believe that this can happen,

280
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:35.000
and I do believe that dolls or objects can be

281
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.880
spirited or haunted. But for the most part, I think

282
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:42.839
most people when they experience this, it's through a completely

283
00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.279
unsuspecting encounter. They've gone out to a shot, perhaps I've

284
00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:49.200
been to an antique fare, or they've just bought a

285
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:54.799
vintage item on eBay, and it's quite a random thing

286
00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:00.519
that just kickstarts that that series of events for them.

287
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:06.920
I don't think there's often an actual trigger that there

288
00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.759
might be in the past, you know, something to link

289
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.519
it to that might have been lost from previous owners,

290
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.839
or the reason that the previous only gave the item away,

291
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.480
for example. But that's not something that it's been easy

292
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:21.400
to uncover unfortunately.

293
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:29.440
Yeah, Now, have you ever come across a case that

294
00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:34.640
has like solidified in your mind that this is a

295
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.319
true phenomena, Like, were you a skeptic at first when

296
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.759
you first started looking at these cases?

297
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:48.640
Or I was a believer in hauntings and in spirit

298
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.960
because of my own personal experiences, you know, so I

299
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.079
leaned towards believing, but I always try to have that

300
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.240
kind of centered approach where I go into to the

301
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.440
case or the subject and tried to be led by

302
00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:09.240
what I'm learning and experiencing. So sort of like a believer,

303
00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:12.480
but with healthy a healthy believer, you know, a good

304
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.759
dose of skepticism, not just necessarily believing because it's what

305
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:20.000
I've been told or anything. So yeah, I don't just

306
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.000
jump to to each case with with that mindset of

307
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.960
just thinking, oh this this is really you know, Britain

308
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:31.200
must be true. You know, I'm aware that balance much

309
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:37.000
liking anything, but I just really wanted to answer the question.

310
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.400
I think for a lot of people, mean if might

311
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.759
be going off, but I know some point was to

312
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.480
think if a how like a building a hotel, you know,

313
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.359
building a lot of land, you know that's just soil

314
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.200
and feel the landscape can be which many of us

315
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:11.640
then questions, why can the material a piece of Oh

316
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:18.400
and that's what's journey. Sorry, I think that that that's

317
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.680
just something that you know, the big thing anyway, Yeah.

318
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.599
No, that makes sense. Yeah, Now you mentioned the one

319
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:31.640
doll that somebody had sent to you, But are there

320
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:38.400
any cases where the doll was removed and that resolved

321
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.400
the activity? And then what happened next.

322
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:51.680
I know there is where activity after the doll. So

323
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.559
obviously there's the famous that we know no one about

324
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:03.559
when eventually evolved removed and a belt and confirmed that

325
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:08.400
it wasn't just the spirit of attached to this, that

326
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:16.119
it was something demonic. They removed that put them in

327
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.039
her in their museum, and I think that from all

328
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.759
reports and everything that I could gather, that that the

329
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.160
activity settled for the owner of them in their home life.

330
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.400
And then much saying with Peggy the doc there was

331
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:41.000
this doll from and they kept brilliant threaty events and

332
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.799
they were attached to the and they put outside blace

333
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:54.039
or an outfield their property, and then Peggy remained there.

334
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:59.680
The owner Vaine Harris, you might recommend, helped my house

335
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:04.240
up wanted overhead in England. She's part of the She

336
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:10.839
was called Terrain and she converned. There was Peggy. And

337
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.519
it's quite a forceful one because as I mentioned earlier

338
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.480
on in the show, there were people that even just

339
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.160
saw pictures or footage of Peggy and were coming in

340
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:23.440
like with their messages saying, oh I felt really ill

341
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:28.480
after seeing her and all this, you know, horrible negative

342
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.400
feeling overtook me, and I think, you know, Jane went

343
00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:35.119
in and did her thing and removed Peggy, and I think,

344
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.000
as far as I know, from all I've been able

345
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.400
to learn, that that that activity settled after the removal

346
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.799
of Peggy in the home that she was originally in. Now,

347
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.160
whether anything has obviously, you know, continued. I think eventually

348
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.160
Zach Beagan's took Peggy and she's now in the the

349
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.119
Haunted Museum. So obviously Peggy still might be doing her

350
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.119
thing in her current location. But I think there's an

351
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.519
indication that by removing these items after and the energy

352
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.440
is moving with them.

353
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.960
Okay, now we've mentioned that, you know, pop culture has

354
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:13.440
kind of grabbed this idea and went with it. How

355
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:17.799
much of this is just a fear of a creepy

356
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:23.920
looking doll, because I mean, psychology wise, people will start

357
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.960
seeing things, hearing things just because fear is playing a factor.

358
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:36.960
Yeah. Absolutely, And probably Hollywood hasn't helped in that sense either,

359
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.160
because Hollywood's really adopted the whole killer doll trope. You know,

360
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.960
we have the nineties film Dolly Dearrist that you might

361
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:50.640
have seen the doll, and obviously Child's play with Chucky,

362
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.599
and you have Annabelle, like he was made kind of

363
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.279
morphed into the horror character as we know her, and

364
00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:02.680
so we're kind of opted this fear through through seeing

365
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:06.640
these dolls become something really negative and demonic and dangerous.

366
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:09.720
I really think it planted the idea in the public

367
00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.559
kindness that you know, perhaps there could be something else

368
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:16.200
at play with these items sometimes. So that's certainly been

369
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.359
an influence on our attitude about dolls. But I think

370
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:21.319
there's another side to it as well. I think it's

371
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:27.039
the fact that two things really. One is that they

372
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:30.319
are lifelike, and you know, some more than others, but

373
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.480
some are incredibly lifelike. You know, sometimes their eyes can

374
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:36.000
really feel like they're looking at you, and that they

375
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:39.480
can be following you. They're facial features. You know, there's

376
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:45.359
something about looking at a human vessel, a human likeness,

377
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.480
and having it in your room staring at you, that

378
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.759
that can be quite unsettling to people. And secondly, I

379
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.240
think it's also the fact that you know, everyone has

380
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.680
or has had items like this in their home. You know,

381
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:02.759
our children have dolls like around and our grandchildren, and

382
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.559
we collect them, we put them on shelves, in our house.

383
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:07.480
And I think it's that as well. It plays on

384
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:09.640
our mind. You know, you see these films and you

385
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.839
hear about things like the Annabelle case, and you just

386
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.559
know that actually that could have been literally any doll

387
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:22.559
at all. That these things aren't necessarily special, they're just

388
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.640
an average doll. But you can never predict when something

389
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.079
could be attached or become attached to it. And I

390
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:31.880
think when you're thinking in those terms, it's not like

391
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.160
moving into a haunted house. It could literally be a

392
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.680
case of popping down shots one day, seeing an item

393
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.079
in a at a market or a charity store and

394
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:44.680
picking it up and then suddenly or your whole life

395
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.880
and your experience could be turned upside down. So that's

396
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:50.599
quite a frightening concept of people.

397
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.480
Yeah. Well, and I mean we've talked about this on

398
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.960
the show multiple times, but the mind is a powerful thing.

399
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:06.480
So there's the you know, the whole idea of creating

400
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:13.759
an entity just by thinking about it, or even if

401
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.200
you're thinking that that dot is haunted, that something would

402
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.640
attach yourself to it because it knows that you're fearful

403
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:20.880
of it.

404
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.880
Yeah. Absolutely, and I think that's where people need to

405
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.759
be careful about making that assumption, and I think it

406
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.839
come to that conclusion, I think you do need to

407
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:39.920
give some time an attention, research investigation to the item

408
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.160
that you're thinking is haunted, to see if actually there

409
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.799
is that something to confirm your feelings, or whether this

410
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.440
is just a general thing or experience in your right

411
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:55.759
now rather than the item that you're blaming on. So

412
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.839
I think it's helpful to have a little kind of

413
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.720
checklist of things, you know, making a log of what

414
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:08.079
you're going through, perhaps, you know, asking for help from

415
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:13.000
a respected or medium perhaps, and then going by your

416
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:18.359
own just simple equipment really, you know, you could use

417
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.839
a dictaphone, start start doing recordings and seeing if you

418
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.880
capture something. EMF meters and I know the opinions divided

419
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.799
on paranormal apps. I think most people would agree that

420
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.880
majority of them can't be trusted. But I think it's

421
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.880
about taking each item and each experiment and building a

422
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:43.319
whole picture from what you're experiencing and then thinking, actually, yeah,

423
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:45.799
I can link this, or I can validate that, or

424
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.920
this experiment does keep yielding results. So I think it's

425
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:52.920
important to just not rely on the feeling and the

426
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.680
instincts even though that can be helpful. I mean, sometimes,

427
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:57.680
you know, you might pick up an object and suddenly

428
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:01.680
get this strong, overpowering feeling. But I think in terms

429
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:06.119
of putting your trust that Okay, I'm ryan, this isn't

430
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.079
just because it's a spooky looking doll or because I've

431
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.519
seen a scary horror film about dolls or anything like that.

432
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:13.519
I think you can take that step further and do

433
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:17.079
your own personal research to think, you know, and uncover

434
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.359
if there's something to it or not.

435
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:28.000
Now, what safeguards can somebody take or that you would

436
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:32.440
recommend collectors, both practical and spiritual to kind of protect

437
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:33.640
from something like this.

438
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.119
I think if somebody has, you know, an item, brought

439
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.839
it into their home and they have a suspicion or

440
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.079
a feeling, whatever the cause of that feeling might be,

441
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.920
in the early stages, you know, there is certainly no

442
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:54.680
harm in doing some kind of prayer or words of

443
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.160
you know, depending on your own spiritual beliefs. Obviously that's

444
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.759
an individual thing. But saying a few words of protection,

445
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:05.279
sort of putting that boundary, sort of saying that there

446
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:09.039
will be no harm, that you won't engage with anything negative,

447
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.720
doing what you can you might not only set that

448
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.880
tone to an energy if it is present, but it

449
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:18.559
might also give you some psychological protection and feeling of

450
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:24.400
control in the situation. And then you know, if you're

451
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.319
somebody who can kind of make contact us with, like

452
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.319
a medium or a psychic, And again that's a personal choice,

453
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.160
but if you're believes and trust in that, if you

454
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.519
can find a reputable one, you can always out and

455
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.519
ask that person to spend some time with the object.

456
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.359
Then they can do their own preyer of protection for you,

457
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:48.720
and they can even perhaps do a reading for you

458
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.720
and confirm you know, actually there's nothing there or there is.

459
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.160
It's a tough one because I think perhaps if there's

460
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.359
an energy attached and it's not negative, and it's something

461
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:05.279
quite light and positive, there might not be any need

462
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.799
to worry about the protection and the boundary. But you

463
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.079
don't burst. And that's why I say it wouldn't do

464
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:13.839
any harm to do that at first. But if you

465
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:15.759
get into the realm we're feeling like, actually what I

466
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:20.960
have is negative or even potentially demonic, then all different

467
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:25.319
things and then that's beyond probably what you feel like

468
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.240
you could deal with from your own home, and you

469
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:30.200
might need to call in help. You know, there are

470
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.559
people who do blessings on objects. There are people who

471
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.039
collect the objects and will willingly take the light and

472
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.759
for you and deal with that themselves. Yeah, but blessings

473
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.720
and protection from either an outside source or yourself, if

474
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:46.480
you're certainly.

475
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:55.400
Okay now, is there anything that you would say for

476
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:57.319
them not to do?

477
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:08.839
I think certainly too. I know it's a bit of

478
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:14.200
a cliche, but not showing fear, I think, and I

479
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:15.920
don't know why. I think it's just something that I've

480
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.039
come across a few times when you know, when I've

481
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:22.440
been reading about the paranormal in general and dealing with

482
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.039
paranormal objects, it's you know, if you're thinking it's something

483
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:31.839
negative or demonic, I think trying to be strong, keep

484
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.720
on told of some strength and not kind of give

485
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.160
in to the fear because there is that belief, isn't

486
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.359
there that something negative will actually be charged by that

487
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.400
or feel emboldened by knowing that they're having that effect

488
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.559
on you. And I know that's easier said than done.

489
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.599
I'm not sure I could do that if I was

490
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.559
experiencing something that was terrifying. But I'm just saying it

491
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.680
as something that I have heard quite a few times

492
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.880
in different places, and then going back to what we

493
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.720
discussed earlier, I'm not convinced that just thinking, Okay, I'm

494
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.160
gonna put this item in a box in my attic

495
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:13.200
will change anything. I'm not confident that destroying the item

496
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:16.920
will either, because this is not something you don't know

497
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.640
how it's linked to the item. You don't know whether

498
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.680
it can shift to something else. You don't know whether

499
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:26.720
you're going to anger that spirit. If there is one attached,

500
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.200
then they might not take kindly to the vessel they

501
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.920
might have been attached to for five, ten fifty years,

502
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:36.799
even being broken or thrown away. So I don't think

503
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:41.279
throwing and destroying it, you know, is helpful. So again

504
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.839
I would look to outside help from sources that you trust,

505
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.960
reputable people that you feel like you can talk to.

506
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.039
Has there ever been a case that you've come across

507
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:06.519
that you're very leary about doing investigating with, like just

508
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.640
even talking to the people about the doll.

509
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:20.200
I was quite nervous writing about Robert's in well and

510
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:24.440
my publisher Llewellyn, I'm releasing my book with you know

511
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.039
takes as seriously as well, and because at one point

512
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.559
there was a discussion about using real photographs in my book,

513
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.319
and we really you know, thought about that and discussed it,

514
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:39.759
and in the end we decided to have an artist

515
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.799
do some illustrations instead, because we thought, perhaps, you know,

516
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.319
there is those stories, you know, like Robert not being

517
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:51.319
happy about his photo being taken and the bad luck

518
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.440
that was associated with Anna Belle and Peggy. You know,

519
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:58.000
her photograph is supposed to have caused people very strong

520
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:02.240
experience of ill health. They'll we really rethought that, and

521
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:04.920
to that extent, we made that decision to just use

522
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.759
some illustrations. So that gives you some kind of indication

523
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:13.400
that we did want to tread care with that. So, yeah,

524
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.320
we do have pictures in the book, but not real

525
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:17.480
photos of the doll, because I was aware of that

526
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:20.679
and I didn't want to unwittingly and get you know,

527
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:29.079
draw the attention and anything negative. But I did have

528
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.719
an experience myself when my book, because I reached out

529
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.599
to a guy called Rob and he has a podcast

530
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.440
of his own, and he had done an experiment with

531
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:43.880
a doll called Edna. He spent two nights, I think

532
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:46.119
it was in a hotel where it was just going

533
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.000
to be him and this doll that was supposed to

534
00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.440
be haunted. And Rob was a bit, you know, a

535
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.280
bit of a skeptic, to be fair, and he didn't

536
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.840
think that anything was going to come of it. So

537
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.920
he spent a couple of nights hold up in this

538
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.119
hotel room, used his a paranormal whipment, his bone and

539
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:05.039
his you know, did various different experiments, and by the

540
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.599
end of it, the results were recorded for his show,

541
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.639
but you know, were played to his audience. But he

542
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:14.480
ended up feeling like, actually, I've come away feeling there

543
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.760
is something to this doll. This doll we called Edna,

544
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:20.880
and he felt uncomfortable about her to the extent that

545
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.480
he locked her in the boot of his car when

546
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:27.039
he returned from the hotel, or that he wanted to

547
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.480
have anything to do. Because we got talking and he

548
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:32.519
knew that I was writing a book, he said, okay,

549
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:35.719
why don't you, Why don't you have Edna? She can

550
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.880
come stay with you. And what started out was me saying, Okay,

551
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:40.480
I'll have her for a couple of weeks just to

552
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:43.519
have some experience to write about in the book, ended

553
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.239
up with Edna staying with me permanently, as Rob actually

554
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:48.400
didn't want her back in the end, and I was

555
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:53.519
having some really unnerving experiences myself. And when I say unnerving,

556
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:55.840
I don't mean negative. I don't think the spirit attached

557
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:58.519
to Edna is negative. It's supposed to be the spirit

558
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:02.679
of a child, actually, But I think you can perceive

559
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:07.800
something as unsettling just because it is unexpected and unknown.

560
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:14.360
And with Edna, I did several experiments with her, Like

561
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.360
I had a touch sensor ball. It's kind of like

562
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:19.360
just a small ball, and it would only light up

563
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:19.679
if you.

564
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:21.840
Push it.

565
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.199
So I placed that. I sat Edna on the shelf,

566
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.360
and I put the ball on ta her legs and

567
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:30.800
I would sort of ask questions and interact, and all

568
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.400
of a sudden, the ball would start lighting up, And

569
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:36.679
so that was really interesting. I filmed that a few

570
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.639
times and put it on my social media. But then

571
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:42.920
that became more unsettling when there would be nothing for

572
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:45.599
a long period of time and I would go to

573
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.760
bed at night and I'd have Edna on my shelf

574
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.559
in my room, and then I'd be woken up at

575
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:54.199
three am because the light was really had set itself

576
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.960
off and it hadn't been going you know. I hadn't

577
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:58.360
done no experiments with it, I hadn't been anywhere near it.

578
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:00.840
The house was quiet, and all of a sudden this

579
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.159
light sense, that touch sense of light going off in

580
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.880
the middle of the night. So that in itself felt unsettling.

581
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.880
You know, you're being woken up and you're thinking, oh,

582
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.000
you know, is that that said set? And then the

583
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:19.480
physical feelings around her, like sometimes really cultivation when holding her,

584
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.280
some kind of bigger movement around the house. My husband

585
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.559
even saw himself, and he's a non believer. Actually, he's

586
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:33.480
much more skeptic camp than I ever was. And he

587
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:36.119
he was in the house shortly after we got Edna,

588
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:39.199
and he himself said he was sitting there and practicing

589
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.400
his guitar, he's a musician, and all of a sudden

590
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.519
he saw something kind of flashed by at the corner

591
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.239
of his eye, to the extent that he got up

592
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.880
and looked around the house thinking, is someone you know

593
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.639
that's got in? And so those kinds of experiences you know,

594
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.000
kept going and that you know, so that was kind

595
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:00.960
of an unnerving thing for me, but away because it

596
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:05.199
helped me have that insight myself to the experience of

597
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.000
a haunted doll. I didn't regret doing it, but it

598
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.360
certainly was something that unnerved me and that I didn't

599
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.800
expect to experience. But you know, I still own it

600
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.480
in and now you know, I'm still standing strong. Nothing

601
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:21.559
bad's happened, and my head doesn't swibble around like horror films.

602
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:30.239
Now it sounds like you've taken a few dolls, now,

603
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.079
like is there would you draw a line at certain

604
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:36.800
activity or whatever to not take the doll?

605
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:42.000
I think so. I mean I would never knowingly want

606
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.039
to have a doll that was associated with I mean,

607
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:50.480
actually that's a liar. Did it once? Didn't I the

608
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:54.199
lady told you about who had bad luck? M No,

609
00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:56.079
it was more than her saying she had a series

610
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.480
of bad luck. She thinks it's this doll. And you know,

611
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:00.199
I did feel a bit stupid at the time because

612
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.840
I thought I could be inviting this into my life

613
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.920
and perhaps something's really going to be awful. But I

614
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:06.760
think where I would draw the line is if I

615
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:12.880
met someone to say we believe this item is perhaps

616
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.840
demonic or cursed. I think in that area is where

617
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.400
I certainly would draw a line. There would be a

618
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.159
boundary there for me because it will Number one. To me,

619
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.360
it seems like common sense, like I don't want to

620
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:27.920
invite something in my life and in my home life

621
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.920
where I have a husband and a child, where something

622
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.679
could really feel you know, it could potentially be something

623
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:37.920
that's quite terrifying if it has some really strong negative

624
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.519
feelings and emotions and activity around it, I wouldn't want

625
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:45.119
to invite that. And number two, I just don't feel

626
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:46.880
like I would be somebody. As much as I've done

627
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.960
is throw myself into this subject and we searched it.

628
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:53.519
I know that personally I wouldn't feel equipped to confidently

629
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:55.599
deal with that, and it would just be something that

630
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.559
probably would trouble me a lot. So that's the the

631
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:03.360
line I would I would put there, I think certainly

632
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:07.239
not knowingly anyway, and buy anything that could potentially be demonic.

633
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:13.760
Okay, I mean to me that makes sense. I mean,

634
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.559
there have been people that take it upon themselves to

635
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:25.000
not necessarily protect these dolls, but keep them contained and

636
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:34.079
keep them away from people. If somebody or wanting to

637
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:39.480
do that, is it something that you would say is

638
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:43.840
safe to do or would you say, you know, definitely

639
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.400
do your research before you start doing something like that.

640
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.280
Yeah, I mean, I think if somebody feels confident, if

641
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:57.559
they have background experience, may feel spiritually and mentally equipped

642
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.400
to deal with it, and they want to, then I

643
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:03.199
suppose it's up to that individual to do that. And

644
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.920
I know that because of the way that I threw

645
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.559
myself into the whole study of this, that I have

646
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:15.400
to come across people that specifically like they seem just

647
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:18.960
really happy, like excited to experience something, and so they

648
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.760
seem drawn to kind of inviting like something negative just

649
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:24.840
to experience it. You know. I don't know if that's

650
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:31.280
just sort of maybe the films and the Hollywood version

651
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:33.519
of things kind of intrigues people, or I wonder what

652
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:36.320
will happen if I had a you know, a possessed

653
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:39.280
doll or something. I don't know if it's that, I mean,

654
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:41.159
because that would send me running the other way personally.

655
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:43.920
But people are you know, everyone's different, and you know

656
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:47.360
there are people out there say, oh, I would adopt

657
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:51.440
and you know, a negative doll, and you know, so

658
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:53.840
that it might be from a perspective of just wanting

659
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.599
to experience that. But then there are also people who

660
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.199
know what they're doing, who are very well versed in

661
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:03.039
dealing with these who just want to not necessarily collect

662
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.440
them because it's fun to collect, but actually own them.

663
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:08.639
They know what they're doing, and they feel good and

664
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:11.199
confident in knowing how to contain it and to keep

665
00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:15.320
themselves safe. So it's almost like helping the people that

666
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.360
owned it, that didn't want that object anymore and being

667
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.159
able to step in and remove that. So in that case,

668
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:23.719
that's you know, that's really valuable for people who need help.

669
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:31.079
M What if anything do you want people to take

670
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:32.920
away from from this book?

671
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:40.480
I think, well, I don't want to freak your listeners

672
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:43.480
out or anything and put them off going to markets

673
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.440
and second ham stores and everything. But I think, you know,

674
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.840
it is possible in you know, when I say that,

675
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.559
through my experience and research, you know, I can't speak

676
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.400
for other people, but you know, I've conclusion that it's

677
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.920
possible for an object such as a doll to be

678
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:05.800
haunted or spirited or cursed whichever, you know, whichever that

679
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:12.679
happens to be, and that really that could been at

680
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:16.599
any place and at any time. So it's not buying

681
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:21.000
a tic an organized paranormal event, and it's not all

682
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:24.280
visiting the spooky house. That's emptied to have this experience.

683
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.320
It's this could be something you could bring into your

684
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:32.480
life completely innocently. So I think for people that are

685
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:37.719
open minded to this, or who are believers, you know,

686
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:40.079
you know, who will take this seriously. I think all

687
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:42.960
I would say is, you know, trust your instinct. You know,

688
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.480
I mean I personally, I collect anti convintage dolls and

689
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.320
nothing would you know, I'm happy to continue doing that.

690
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.719
But I think you have to trust your instinct. And

691
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.639
if you do get that feeling actually you know, I'm

692
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:58.800
getting some strong vibes off this, then it's going back

693
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:02.559
to what I said earlier. It's just going through that

694
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:05.360
process again. You know, Okay, why do I feel like this?

695
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:09.199
Is there another reason? And if you if you are

696
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:12.760
convinced still that it's the item, then my advice would

697
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:18.079
be to go through that list that I mentioned earlier,

698
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.320
go through the spending time with the item, keeping a

699
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.480
log of events, you know, calling in help from someone

700
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:27.199
that's reputable that might be able to give you some insight,

701
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.360
giving you a reading by some equipment. You know, there

702
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.440
are so many layers that you can do to kind

703
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:37.039
of come to that validation or perhaps not. You know,

704
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.599
it could end up that it's not haunted. But that's

705
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:42.719
what I'd say. I know, it's just that only a

706
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:49.280
haunted object could happen potentially to any I just exactly common.

707
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:52.679
But you know, I think it's an interesting idea that this,

708
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:55.159
you know, you could go out one day by an

709
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:57.719
item that just looks cute to you or interesting and

710
00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:04.440
then have this really like completely mind altering experience where

711
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:08.000
you know, perhaps your perception of spirits and hauntings might

712
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.400
be shifted. So it's an awareness and you know, trust

713
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:14.199
your instinct. Maybe if you're in a shop and you

714
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.599
pick something up you like, but you get that strong

715
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.679
negative feeling, then maybe listen to that feeling as well.

716
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:26.880
Was there anything that shocked you or surprised you when

717
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.239
reading this book?

718
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:35.320
It was the amount of cases that were out there,

719
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:37.440
you know, when I was telling you earlier that you know,

720
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:41.360
obviously I had the account of Annabelle was the big trigger,

721
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:46.920
like you know, of these kind of stories two fifteen.

722
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.559
It was the the Peggy case that that kind of

723
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:55.639
started my obsession with God Wanted Dolls. But I think

724
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:59.639
if I'm surprised by anything, it's that actually how many

725
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:04.079
cases as there are, probably most of your listen familiar

726
00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:08.760
with the big name Robert and Harold Pggy, but it does,

727
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:11.519
you know, you kind of do some you realize, you know,

728
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:15.559
many people the world over have had these experiences with

729
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:18.920
dolls and haunted objects, and that's you know, that's quite

730
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:24.800
eye opening. I think, not as kind of rare as

731
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:29.760
you as you hope for it to be. You know, experiences,

732
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:32.599
they've had this in their life, they've had to deal

733
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:36.400
with it, and it's way far beyond just the two

734
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.280
or three names that generally headline the usual sort of

735
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:44.239
paranormal books and articles. You know, it's quite a fascinating

736
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.599
thing to realize, actually there's a whole wealth of material

737
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:47.920
out there and experiences.

738
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:58.239
Now, has there been a percentage of negative versus non

739
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.400
negative experiences that you came across.

740
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:09.480
I'd say it's quite I'd say that, you know, the

741
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:13.920
negative ones often capture the most attention because then that

742
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:17.840
groups people's attention, that kind of that plays on the

743
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.639
whole sort of fear thing, and I can understand why.

744
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:23.480
But you know, for the most part, a lot of

745
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:27.239
experiences that I looked into and read about and studied,

746
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.559
they weren't necessarily that they were negative. You know, there

747
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.639
are cases where people perhaps the item, but it wasn't

748
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.679
necessarily negative. It was just because they were having paranormal

749
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:42.440
experiences that they weren't prepared to have. And you know,

750
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.119
having an experience of something unsettling that you weren't expecting,

751
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:48.639
that you're not used to, that makes you feel kind

752
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.079
of uncomfortable in your own home. You know, those things

753
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:54.719
can be perceived as negative, but it doesn't necessarily mean

754
00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:00.039
the energy itself was had any negative at tension. I

755
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.760
think a lot of what I've read about was that

756
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:06.199
there was paranormal experiences and encounters, but that they weren't

757
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:10.559
really you know, there wasn't just like a whole wealth

758
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:14.079
of demonic case you know, demonic cases out there goals

759
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.719
or really negative spirits. There were, and they make for

760
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.159
good reading, you know, that's interesting. But for a lot

761
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:26.920
of cases it was it was perfectly positive or calm energy,

762
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.400
but active what some people just aren't comfortable with. Mm

763
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:32.519
hmm okay.

764
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:43.320
So doing the research that you have, do a lot

765
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:50.719
of these cases seem more like people that just owned

766
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:52.920
the doll that got really attached to it. Is it

767
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:58.079
more children that are getting attached in them passing away

768
00:48:58.199 --> 00:48:59.800
what's your take on that.

769
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.599
I think I think it's so for every case you

770
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:15.000
know about, like the spirit sells, are the dolls that

771
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:15.599
what you mean?

772
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:18.599
Yeah, yeah, I think you know.

773
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:23.880
Certainly in some cases, you know, it makes sense if

774
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.679
you have a like an actual boy such as you know,

775
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:32.559
a kind of a play playful, cute looking toy that

776
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:35.199
was owned by a child, then there's every reason to

777
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:39.800
think that that that child would be have some kind

778
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:43.360
of link or attachment to it. And that's certainly something,

779
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:48.239
but it's not always the case. I think, you know,

780
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:51.719
going back to the reasons why an item will be haunted,

781
00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:54.760
it could it could just be that a spirit, like

782
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:58.679
I said, wants to inhabit something that looks human like,

783
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:00.679
so it's not necessary then might have had a link

784
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:04.280
with that item in their lifetime, but they're seeing something

785
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:08.159
that they recognize as human and would rather kind of

786
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.800
inhabit that than just something random or not having any

787
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:18.400
physical link to something. I mean, they're also mysterious cases.

788
00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:20.679
And you know, your question makes me think of a

789
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:24.519
case in Japan. I think it was I could be

790
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:26.360
incorrect with the time. I think it was the early

791
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.880
nineteen hundreds and there was a case about a doll

792
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:31.760
called o Kiku. I don't know if you've heard of

793
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:37.400
that case, and that was interesting. These parents had a child,

794
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:40.679
at a young girl, and she had a favorite doll

795
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:43.199
and she was never seen without this doll. She absolutely

796
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:47.199
loved it. It was her favorite toy. And fortunately that

797
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:52.119
the child became very ill and she passed away, and

798
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.639
the parents kept the doll in honor of the child,

799
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:58.199
because you know, this is our favorite, our daughter's favorite toy,

800
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.960
not eating it, they kept it on a shelf in

801
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:05.360
a kind of next to the picture of their daughter,

802
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:09.880
in a kind of like tribute. Almost after a while

803
00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:13.159
that the parents noticed that the doll's hair looked longer,

804
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.199
which kind of struck them. They thought that was really odd.

805
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:18.760
But then, you know, they just left it and waited

806
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:21.159
a while, and then they checked it again after a

807
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.960
period of time and it was longer again. So you know,

808
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.000
they asked that question, then, is you know, is our

809
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:30.800
door to's passed up somehow affecting is her energy somehow

810
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.400
affecting this or is it something else inexplicable And it's

811
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.239
not a question. They could get to the bottom too,

812
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.519
you know, but I certainly think it's possible that the

813
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:46.880
child was somehow affecting the item, And as it stands,

814
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:50.920
the parents eventually donated a kicko the doll to a

815
00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:55.800
temple where some monks kept hold of it. And apparently,

816
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:58.679
you know, as far as my research takes me, anyway,

817
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:01.400
there were monks that that would do the same thing

818
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:04.360
and kept to check and apparently the doll's hair was

819
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:07.239
still growing and they were able to attest that there

820
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.559
was truth to this. So there is that theory. You know,

821
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:12.280
was the child able to manipulate the doll with that

822
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.440
kind of energy or was there something completely different that's

823
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.159
beyond our current understanding. But it was just a case

824
00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:20.440
that stood out in my mind when you mentioned like

825
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:24.239
a child child's energy sort of being around a doll

826
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:27.280
that they loved, you know, possible when it makes sense

827
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:29.119
that that would be the case in quite a few

828
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:31.360
of the accounts that come up.

829
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:36.239
Now, is it Robert the doll that looked like he

830
00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:42.480
was aging? I know there was one case. I can't

831
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:43.480
remember which one it was.

832
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:51.480
There was a case, Yeah, it might Something tells me

833
00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:53.840
it wasn't Robert the doll, but it was a doll

834
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:57.320
that looks similar to Robert and I can't think. I

835
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.320
can't think of the name. But there case wasn't there

836
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:03.159
where there was a doll that was found and that

837
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:07.199
people were taking pictures and they noticed physical changes. Yeah,

838
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:10.679
I do know the case you're referring to a minds

839
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:13.960
drawn a blank with the name of that particular dole.

840
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.760
But you know that reminds me of you know, what

841
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.239
you're mentioning there, Like the Japanese. It does make you

842
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.519
sometimes if there is an energy that can manipulate the

843
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:32.039
material of that object you know about that that caused degradation.

844
00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:34.880
But I'm guessing that because it was so noticeable and

845
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:39.760
it became so infamous about that doll that was aging

846
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.079
that that there's something that can quite be explossed with

847
00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:50.239
natural things, you know, to think that it could potentially changing.

848
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:58.159
Now, have you in all the cases that you've come across,

849
00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:04.599
is there a certain uh material that is more haunted

850
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:08.840
than others like porcelain versus rag versus plastic.

851
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:14.440
I don't think so. No. From everything that I've learned,

852
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.039
I think it can literally be. I think in a

853
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:20.800
way that makes sense because if a dog can be,

854
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:24.280
any object could be, you know. So, like I mentioned earlier,

855
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:30.480
whether an antique heirloom of the family passed down a

856
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:38.440
rich piece of jew peak items can energy. I don't

857
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:42.679
think it's to that physical material. I think that if

858
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:50.480
dawn something for reason, I don't think expect that object

859
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:55.840
is so, you know, be wanted that I have certainly

860
00:54:55.880 --> 00:55:01.599
come up like Raggedy and type well then puppets, So

861
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.480
I don't think it's one time from what I've done.

862
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.159
Okay, all right, Well, we are getting close to the

863
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:11.599
end of the show, so I want to give you

864
00:55:11.719 --> 00:55:13.800
the chance to tell everybody where they can find you

865
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:16.159
find the book that that mix all yours.

866
00:55:17.239 --> 00:55:21.039
Okay, So the first thing I'd want to say, I'm

867
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:27.280
still about haunted, Haunted that and reach out had an

868
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:33.840
experience fellthy I'd love to hear from from my book

869
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:39.719
is called of What It does be out the twenty

870
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:44.840
fifth September for America over here and out in earlier

871
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:50.679
so and it does continue us with quite reconize from

872
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:56.679
some paradises and also a lot of writing the more unknown.

873
00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:00.599
I'm hopefully you guys have so you can get a

874
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:07.880
conection for Wanted Doors or then it'll be a very

875
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:12.320
book version and you can look me up. I am

876
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:18.079
on Instagram TikTok look me up being a dogwell author,

877
00:56:18.679 --> 00:56:20.599
and I should come up, you know, I'd love to

878
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.400
connect with some of you and hear about your own experiences.

879
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:27.719
All right, Fionna, thank you so much for coming on

880
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:33.000
and I will definitely be pushing this book because it's

881
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:36.119
one of those things that it is not talked about

882
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:38.239
as much compared to other things in the paranormal.

883
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:41.119
So okay, thanks so much for having mel.

884
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:48.880
All Right, folks, make sure you check out Fiona's book,

885
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:59.519
A Cursed oh Gosh Doll Collection. Sorry about that, A

886
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:05.840
curse collection of haunted dolls. Definitely something that is not

887
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.639
rarely or really talked about very often on a lot

888
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:14.400
of shows or whatever, or even done on the TV

889
00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:18.000
shows that those curse dolls, haunted dolls are one of

890
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:20.280
those things that is not talked about as much as

891
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:25.400
other things in the paranormal. Something I did want to

892
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.840
bring up is we did do a poll before doing

893
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:31.679
the recording of the show, and we asked if a

894
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:35.119
doll moved an inch every night, would you keep it

895
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:38.599
or curb it? And the answers were keep it cleanse it,

896
00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:41.719
contain it, curb it. And it was a fifty to

897
00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:46.360
fifty break on people that would cleanse it or people

898
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:49.440
that would curb it. Nobody had an answer for keep

899
00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:52.599
it or contain it. So that was a really interesting

900
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:57.920
poll and I hope you guys are enjoying all these

901
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:00.719
We hope to have more answers from all of you

902
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:06.639
because it's definitely an engaging conversation. So make sure you're

903
00:58:06.679 --> 00:58:12.039
checking out everything that we post. We post them on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram,

904
00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:19.920
there are a couple others that we're on. Engage with us.

905
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:23.199
Tell us what you guys think, because just because we're

906
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:26.639
bringing this information to you doesn't mean that there aren't

907
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:30.559
other opinions out there. Make sure you like, share, subscribe

908
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:34.719
no matter where you're listening or watching until next week

909
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:39.440
where you'll find us, same time, same channel. My name

910
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.480
is Justin. Talk to you guys later.