June 22, 2025

The American Witch Hunt w/JJROSE777

The American Witch Hunt w/JJROSE777
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You might think of witches as just a Halloween costume, but their history in America is far more complex and dangerous. Get ready to be shocked as we explore the real victims of these trials. Justin and Erik bring on JJRose to discuss the effect on our society of these acts.

Bio: JJRose777 is a lifelong psychic and all things 6th sense. She is the lead psychic specialist for a paranormal Investigation team, a Ordained Non-Denominational Minister and All Elemental Eclectic Solitary White Witch. She focuses on being a Metaphysical Teacher with her YouTube Channel JJROSE777 where you can find videos from just waking up into the Spiritual world, to advanced videos to help you learn to clear yourself and most especially to Bubble Up which is a form of spiritual protection.

Find JJROSE777: YouTube

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/paratruth-reborn--6273542/support.

Thanks for listening!

WEBVTT

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Welcome. Well, well do Parah Truth.

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Truth, What's going on? Paratruthers, Welcome to another episode of

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Paratruth Reborn. This is a peer records show on one

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of seven point seven FM New Orleans and United Public

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Radio Network. My name is Justin and today I am

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joined by a special guest co host. She goes by

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JJ Rose seven seven seven. She is a lifelong psychic

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and all things sixth sense. She is the lead psychic

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specialist for a paranormal investigation team and ordained non denominational

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minister and all elemental, eclectic, solitary white witch. Try saying

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all of that five times fast. She focuses on being

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a metaphysical teacher with her YouTube channel JJ Rose seven

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seven seven, where you can find videos from just waking

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up into the spiritual world, to advance videos to help

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you learn to clear yourself, and most especially to bubble up,

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which is a form of spiritual protection. JJ Rose. Welcome

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to Paratruth to be Born.

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Thank you so much, Justin. I'm so honored to be

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here today. Thank you. Now.

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I love that you put in the description that you're

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a lifelong psychic, which means that you indicate that you've

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had it since birth, which most people don't usually indicate that,

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but it is usually the case.

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Yeah, Basically, if I showed up without any spiritual gifts

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and would have known I was adopted.

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So now, was there anything I missed in that intro?

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No, I think you covered the majority of it. If

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we go into every little thing that I'm capable of,

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we're going to be here. It feels like a resume

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more than a title.

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So now I feel that I was brought to you

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for a purpose. And also my guest a couple of

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weeks ago, granddaughter Crow, who wrote a book called Shamanism

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and Your Shadow, which is about using shamanism to do

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shadow work. Both of you, I felt I was brought

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to because I feel that I am still continuing to

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grow spiritually. I did it kind of like initiated myself

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into mediumship years and years ago, and I feel that

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I've been just stuck at a certain point. So this

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is super exciting, and I'm so happy that you're able

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to join because you have a link to this topic

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and we'll get into that in just a few minutes here.

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So today we're talking about the American witch trials, and

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there are a few outside of Salem, but Salem is

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the most well known. And one of the things that

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you have to really understand about the witch trials back

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in the day was, for the most part, it was

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you know, a lot of fear based people were coming

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from England to the Americas. And you know, back then

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it was the Americas, it wasn't the United States of America.

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Yet most of these people were flee fleeing England from

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spiritual for spiritual freedom. Yeah, and so they became what's

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known today as the Puritans. They Oh God, what's the

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best way. You probably have a better way of describing

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this than I do about why they were called Puritans.

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Yeah, the Puritans just kind of in the name, their

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desire was to be pure, and in that desire they

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at the time in England felt that the Church of

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England was far too frivolous and liberal, and so they

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wanted a place where they could be completely dedicated to

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reading the Bible and living the most biblically directed lines.

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And when I tell you, these people were serious about

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the business. Yeah, because England back then was pretty pretty

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released up in tight and anyone who thought that that

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was too frivolous, you could only imagine how they would act.

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Yeah. Well, and if if the Puritans saw what America

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is today, I think they would be turning in their grade.

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Oh yeah, they would have thought that they reserved a

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skeecially in hell.

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Basically, yeah, all right, so come here leeing religious persecution

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and having a lot of societal anxieties about what was

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going on in England. Uh. These believes were rooted in

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a strong faith in supernatural, the devil and the potential

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for Uh. That were rooted in a strong faith in

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the I'm completely boggling himself for harm supernatural forces. Sorry, Uh,

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leading activations and trials and individuals most famous in Salem,

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mass Now, there was a belief in the supernatural, and

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colonial Americas, especially those influenced by the Puritanism, held a

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strong belief in the devil's power and his presence in

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the world. They saw witchcraft as a way for the

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devil to influence and harm individuals, communities, and even entire societies.

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European beliefs. The belief in witchcraft and colonial America was

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an extension of what was happening in Europe at the time,

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because there were trials going on there and in those trials,

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they were burning the witch of the steak, where in

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the Americas it was not burned at the stake, but

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they would hang them. And then these beliefs were brought

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over to by the European settlers and were integrated into

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their religious and societal understanding of the world. And in

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the southern colonies there were witchcraft trials as well, but

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again a lot of these were not as prevalent as

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the Salem witch trials. In the South, particularly on the frontier,

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beliefs about witchcraft were often intertwined with superstitions and practices

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lay its, healing and press, such as using charms, incantations,

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and popular astrology. Now you can correct me if I'm wrong, JJ,

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But that eventually led to voodoo and who Do practitioners

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being hunted down as well. Right, it did, I.

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Would say the who Do first, specifically because Whodo really

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is a conglomeration of African and Celtic superstitious beliefs and

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spiritual beliefs that kind of got melded once people all

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landed here and started meshing together. Voodoo itself. In the

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very very early Puritanical times, slavery had not fully grasped

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in the Americas at that time, it was still happening.

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It just wasn't as it was in the for instance,

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seventeen hundreds, where it was everywhere the colonies were still

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really being set up historically, people were still exploring the land,

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and the slaves kind of kept to themselves, whereas the

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you know, the owners kept to themselves. It was really

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when everyone started putting down roots that they started blending

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together and seeing, oh, okay, the local medicine woman or

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you know that woman who we always go to for

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herbal remedies, is a little something different.

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Right now. There are some predispositions as to why these

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particular which trials happened. Agricultural decline. Unlike in England, where

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farming was more abundant because of rain and not as

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much harsh terrain, harsh weather conditions here in the Americas,

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such as those caused by a quote unquote little ice age,

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severely impacted agricultural communities, leading to food shortages and economic hardship.

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Waning of godly ideals. Some Puritan leaders believed that a

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decline in religious piety, coupled with the growth of a

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more worldly capitalist outlook, was causing societal problems and economic stress,

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competition for resources. I mean, most people know that we

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were competing with the Native Americans here. There was a

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lot of brutal, bloody wars on both sides that were

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causing this. So there was a lot of tension there

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in scapegoating. Economic decline and desperation in the face of

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hardship could lead to the scapegoating that happened. And I

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wanted you to kind of talk about this because on

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Cash Show you described this so well about how they

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would resolve conflicts back then.

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Yeah. So I live in California, which if you're from

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the United States, you know, is consider the sooe happiest

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state of them all. Well, back then, the Puritans, because

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they still were part of England. In order for them

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to resolve anything between each other, they basically suit each

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other and then everything had to go back and forth

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between the crown and the intermediaries in between. So these

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lawsuits weren't settled in you know, two or three weeks.

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These were drawn out for months or years. And I

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mean these are things as small as your cow came

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on to my pasture and started eating some of my grass,

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all the way up to you know, you put a

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fence and it's technically on my property, or you stole,

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you know, my livestock, or your kids came over and

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stole my vegetables that I was growing, et cetera. And

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it was all over the map, and some of the

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stuff was so insanely petty. But again you have to understand,

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these people were into brand new land. It is nothing

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like what they imagined. The terrain is rocky, it's very

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hard living in the eastern you know, the Northeastern areas,

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especially where they ended up in Massachusetts. And on top

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of all of these factors, that ship ride to get

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to the Americas was like six months, and it's really

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really hard. And these people, typically the husbands were older,

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and so you have the wives trying to take on

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the brunt of the physical labor that they're not built

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for because they never did that before. And then you

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have all these kids who are picking up big boulders

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and chopping down trees just to stay warm. So overall

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you had this really hard life and anything in everything

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that normally today we might just write off like okay,

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just let them have it. Back then they were seeing

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each other left and right.

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Now. You had mentioned too, like on Cats Show that

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at one point they had gone to airing their dirty

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laundry in public, right, Yeah, So that was.

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Actually part of the puritanical religious belief. So if someone

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did something quote unquote bad or a sin, they didn't

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go inside themselves and reflect and pray on it. Instead,

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someone would call them out on it and then make

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them go in the middle of the town in front

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of everybody, and people would come up and spit on them.

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People would come up and call them names. So everyone

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was in everyone's business. And we're talking as small as

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someone overheard a wife snipe back at her husband for something,

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so they would tie her to the mule cart and

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then take her to the middle of town and then

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have people basically call her horrendous names, all because of

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what someone heard. And that was their piety. That was

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their way of being open and honest with all of

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their sins. Is everyone got to know everything. But what

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they didn't think about is it also created an entire

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group of people judging each other.

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Now, I think even today in our society, people whenever

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they hear the word which they think female or woman.

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This was exponentially worse back then because it was a

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patriarchal society. Not that it's not today, but it has

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changed quite drastically compared to back then. But women were

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basically the ones that were assumed, which is an I

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feel that is way farther from the truth if there

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was any Boddy practicing muchcraft at all period. But I mean,

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we know today that people do and have continued to

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do so. But it's one of those things that even

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even homosexuality back then was a sin, but it was

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being done like nobody did it publicly. It was just

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done in private. So yeah, now we the majority of

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this episode is going to be about the Salemwich Trials

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and we'll kind of talk a little bit about the

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other ones. But so the Salemwich Trials occurred between sixteen

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ninety two and sixteen ninety three, the majority of them. Now,

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I want you to take the most of this because

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you've got a link here, so I want you to

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go into that and what was going on back then.

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Sure, so my personal link to this besides the fact

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that I am a witch and always really have been.

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So I can remember back in junior high when they

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were teaching this, I was so incensed I had to

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actually get up and leave class and take a walk

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I was so upset about this. Now fast forward way

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later in life and watching a documentary on the History

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Channel and they're talking about the Salewich Trials and they

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bring up this one name, and I thought, oh, that's interesting.

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I know that I'm related to somebody with that name.

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I wonder if I'm related, And so I went into

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the records, which I had never done before, and ended

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up finding out I am a direct descendant of Elizabeth Howe,

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and Elizabeth Howe was one of the last people to

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be hung in the Salem witch Trials. She was in

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her fifties. Basically, the whole reason she ended up getting

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pulled into this whole thing is because she stood up

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and actually said, why are you taking the word of

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twelve year old olds who are acting childish and killing people?

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And we all know that you guys meeting the elders,

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the parents of the children who are doing this, are

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doing his friend nefarious purposes. You want our land, you

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want our money. You've been suing us, We've been suing you.

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You're petulant children, basically, and you're killing fellow adults over

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the words of these children who are playing games and

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00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.000
who are ponds in your bigger scheme, and so of

230
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:34.279
course she ends up just for being a woman and

231
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:38.839
talking out ending up being hung. So yes, I do

232
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:43.880
have an actual DNA connection to this, but on a

233
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:49.400
heart level, I deeply revere and I feel for anyone

234
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:54.319
in a situation of injustice and anyone who a situation,

235
00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:57.400
especially a legal one like this that was so vast

236
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:01.680
and so ridiculous when you know all the tiny specs

237
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.920
of the trial, of how this was allowed to happen,

238
00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.119
and how many good people actually died because of the

239
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.319
greed and the scheming of others.

240
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.599
Now, something that Eric and I speculated the last time

241
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:24.759
we talked about this was that there maybe there was

242
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.119
a sexual component too. I mean that probably wasn't put

243
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:33.200
into the public record, but like Thomas Putnam and Reverend

244
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.079
Paris maybe having some type of affairs with these women

245
00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.599
too and then trying to silence them.

246
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:46.039
And no, not in exact So, there was one woman

247
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:52.440
in particular who was beautiful and basically you know, this

248
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.200
man got caught staring at her too much, and so

249
00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.559
he just accused her of being a witch because she

250
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:08.039
made him happy and looking at her so very delicate

251
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.599
with those.

252
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.000
Words, I mean you could say happy in the pants,

253
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.319
that's fine.

254
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.160
Well, I mean, and the thing of it is, think

255
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.400
about that, think about the fact that you're just living

256
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.640
your life, you're just who you are, someone else finds

257
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.319
you attractive, and you get sentenced to death because of that.

258
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.319
And I can hear most women you know right now,

259
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.079
We've come a really, really, really long way, but this

260
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.480
is still something that is very steeped in religions all

261
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.720
over the world. And you know, in America we have

262
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:49.039
it really wonderful, but there are countries where women don't.

263
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:53.200
Women have to completely cover themselves up because if a

264
00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:55.640
man looks at them and finds them attractive, it's her

265
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.880
fault yep.

266
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.759
Yeah, And that was gonna be a point that I

267
00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.200
kind of make on this on this episode. Is I mean, yes,

268
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.720
in America for the most part, we do have a

269
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:14.839
lot of freedoms in that regard, but I mean, religious

270
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.720
piety is still going on to this day. I mean,

271
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:24.640
not always just one particular religion, in several. But so

272
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.960
what kind of started this was two kids kind of

273
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:36.519
wanted to help their parents and accused. The original accused

274
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:44.000
were Tichiba, which was a slave girl, Sarah Good Sarah Osborne,

275
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:50.200
Martha Cory, Rachel Clinton, who was actually not even a

276
00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:55.519
Salem resident. She was originally from Ipswich, dorotha Good and

277
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.200
Rebecca Nurse. Is there any names I missed there?

278
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.720
I mean there were nineteen people in total that we're wrong,

279
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.759
but those were the first round.

280
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:15.319
Okay. Now Tisaba had kind of confessed to this, you know,

281
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.240
which was the trigger that sparked the Massterian hunt for

282
00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.640
more witches in Salem, and it also silenced any opposition

283
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.400
to the idea that the devil had infiltrated Salem, which

284
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:36.039
again to this day, like if you provide this kind

285
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.839
of evidence to somebody, they're like, well, there you go,

286
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:50.480
that that proves of right there. But now Tichuba was

287
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.000
not so much. I mean, she was a slave, but

288
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.200
she was kind of a nanny. Is that right.

289
00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:01.559
Yeah. So the family that Tichiba worked for before had

290
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.160
lived in Barbados, so they had come from England over

291
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.119
to Barbados, which was very common. A lot of people

292
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.680
actually were going to the Caribbean first and they were

293
00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.279
kind of setting up shop with their sugar plantations and

294
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.000
different things, and then they would make their way back

295
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:24.240
up to the East coast and settle in those areas.

296
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.519
So this family in particular had been in Barbados. They

297
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.039
had basically picked her up. She had been with the

298
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:34.559
family since she was little, and she was in essence

299
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:39.000
of slave. I mean, depending on the record, you'll see

300
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.559
some people say, yeah, she volunteered to go, but yeah,

301
00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.599
when you're if, when you're in a situation where you

302
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:53.480
really are able to say no, that slavely So she

303
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.559
ended up going. But you got to remember Chichibas raised

304
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.599
in Barbados. She's an island girl and she you know,

305
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.680
has melanin in her skin, right, so she doesn't look

306
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:08.920
like the Puritans. She's not white, and being from a

307
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.279
rich culture in the islands, she has all of these

308
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:18.440
stories and storytelling and that's the culture that she came from.

309
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.799
So these kids and Puritanical beliefs, they're basically able to

310
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.119
read the Bible and that's it. They're not able to play,

311
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.079
they're not able to frolic, They're able to do hard

312
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:34.279
work and read the Bible and that's it. And you

313
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.319
have this amazing Mary Poppins type nanny who comes along,

314
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:43.599
who's telling them stories and scary things and fun things

315
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:47.240
and whimsical things. And she's teaching them to play, and

316
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.240
these kids are having the time of their lives. But

317
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:53.119
when they go talk to their other friends, and their

318
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.279
other friends have never heard anything like this, they think

319
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:01.440
it's weird. And that's how easily it was for Tichiba

320
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:05.880
to be accused. She stood out.

321
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.400
Now even today, again bringing this back to modern times,

322
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:16.400
they're I mean, even mediums or people that say they

323
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:22.640
can see dead people are kind of persecuted in a way,

324
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.200
and when they're a young age because they'll you know,

325
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.119
kids hear things and then they'll go tell their parents,

326
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:32.920
and then the parents freak out and basically tell teachers

327
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.880
or the school. You know that my child's not going

328
00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.240
to be going in the same class as that girl

329
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:42.799
she says she sees dead people. So it's it's one

330
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.519
of those things. And it again, it has gotten better,

331
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.599
but I have still heard a lot of different stories

332
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.119
about that.

333
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.359
And that's so sad to me because in reality, if

334
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:58.559
you were to interview one hundred families at random, everyone

335
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.960
has some relis right, that had some sort of gift.

336
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.039
And it's funny to me because I know people and

337
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.240
I'll ask them, oh, you know, what about your grandparents

338
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.480
or what about your great grandparents and'll be like, oh, no, nothing, nothing.

339
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.839
Oh well, you know when grandma looks out the windows,

340
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.720
she was always she always did this three times and

341
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.839
then said this weird little thing, and I'm like, hello,

342
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.359
that's a spell, right.

343
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:28.880
I mean most people don't even realize that, you know,

344
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:35.039
a lot of prayers or even when you're cussing in

345
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.960
traffic at somebody, that you're flaying a curse or you're

346
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.559
doing a spell through prayer and you don't even realize it.

347
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:47.200
Yeah, don't even get me started on how religion ties

348
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:55.359
to a ritual. That's a whole other episode we could

349
00:25:55.359 --> 00:26:00.240
do one day. But I mean, honestly, if you think

350
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:08.160
about it, everything was set up perfectly for this situation

351
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.039
to happen. These are people in a new land. They're

352
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.240
dealing with the native people there, and it wasn't pretty.

353
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:20.599
I mean, there were very very very ugly wars and

354
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.240
that occurred. So you've got people with a lot of trauma.

355
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:28.559
You've got people who are clinging on to the Bible

356
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.519
and trying to live biblically, even though every part of

357
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:36.079
them innately wants to do the opposite, including the children.

358
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.799
They just want to be kids and then you have

359
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:44.000
all these societal pressures and then the pressure to succeed

360
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.759
on top of that, and then you add in all

361
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:52.519
the sexual repression that was happening within the Puritanical belief

362
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.279
system on top of the fact that, you know, everyone's

363
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:58.200
house is pretty much on top of each other, so

364
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:02.119
anything you do, everyone can hear. And you know, for

365
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:06.640
the record, relations between a husband and a wife were

366
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.200
not for physical pleasure. They were literally to get the

367
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:16.519
woman pregnant to bear it. That's how rigid this religion was.

368
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:22.319
So you have people who are hungry, cold, traumatized, angry,

369
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.799
and then you add on some sexual repression in there.

370
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:29.839
It's a powder can right, just waiting to help me.

371
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:36.880
Now, something that I find fascinating about these trials, and

372
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:43.880
I had never heard this before, is spectral evidence. And

373
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:49.119
it's I'll give you guys. The definition. Spectral evidence is

374
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:52.599
a form of evidence based on dreams or visions. It

375
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.240
was witnesses. It was a witness testimony that a person's

376
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.880
spirit or specter appeared to the witness in a dream

377
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:07.359
or vision and afflicted them. Now, around September of that

378
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:13.319
year nineteen or sixteen ninety two, that evidence was deemed

379
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:19.599
no longer admissible as evidence because I mean, obviously people

380
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.559
can make stuff up. So I had never heard that

381
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:28.079
before from when we did the episode the last time,

382
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:31.559
so that was kind of interesting to me. Now, these

383
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:38.000
girls that accused these people of being, which is kind

384
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.680
of went through some stuff in the trials and even

385
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:47.480
when they were accusing them, So I wanted you to

386
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:48.920
kind of go into that for me.

387
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:54.839
Yeah, So again, please remember that the girls and of

388
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.359
our a few little boys that were accusing, we're all

389
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:02.119
between the ages of nine and thirteen years old, so

390
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:07.079
they're young. They're just most of the time they're even

391
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:09.119
too young for their hormones to even kick in, so

392
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.079
they're not even full fledged teenagers yet, but they're just

393
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:13.119
getting there.

394
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:15.079
What we would call tweeners today.

395
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.799
Yes, yes, and if you're a parent of a tween,

396
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:24.759
god bless you. But you can also understand and realize

397
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:32.359
hysterics that can happen and how dramatic things become quickly,

398
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.000
especially if they're hungry. Oh so in court, some of

399
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.799
the things that were said was one girl would say, oh, well,

400
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.599
she appeared to me in spirit form and she pinched

401
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:49.440
my arm, and then the court would go everyone would

402
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:55.160
gasp and clutch their pearls. And then immediately the other accusers,

403
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.440
who they were all sitting together, would immediately me too,

404
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:02.559
me too, me too. And then when you would see

405
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.920
the accused stand there, and most of the time they

406
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.559
would say why are you lying? Why are you saying this?

407
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:13.279
All of the children in unison would start holding their

408
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.519
arm or their chest or their head and get on

409
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:20.960
the ground and start screaming and flailing their arms, and

410
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:26.880
this was considered evidence that they were being spectrally afflicted.

411
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:35.680
Now, something that was kind of brought up on your

412
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:39.160
shore with cat and I've seen this evidence before was

413
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.119
the potential for ar got poisoning and that was kind

414
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.799
of happening. Then, Now, is there any evidence to state

415
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.599
that these kids had ar got poisoning and that was

416
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.519
causing the behaviors or was this just you know, I

417
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.519
am so bored, let's make some chaos.

418
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.799
Well, and great question, because it could have started a

419
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:08.279
number of ways, and argott I wouldn't even call it poisoning.

420
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.599
I would just say it's like microdosing. At this point,

421
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.480
If if you don't know what argot is, Argot is

422
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:18.079
basically a form of a psychedelic it's like an LSD.

423
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.039
And there was a very long and wet winter that year,

424
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.119
and there were reports in some of the diaries that

425
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.759
the wheat that year had turned purple. And that's where

426
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.680
this theory that there was potential for argt poisoning to

427
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:39.119
have happened, because argot grows on wet wheat and it

428
00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:43.599
looks it's like a purple mold fungus, and when it's ingested,

429
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:50.519
you basically you trip in right and it can cause hallucinations,

430
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:53.279
it can cause facial ticks, it can cause body tips,

431
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:58.319
it can cause very strange dreams, hypnagogic reactions when people

432
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:02.400
are sleeping, which basically is when you're flopping around while

433
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.960
you're sleeping. And so my thought on it is potentially

434
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.640
that wheat no one knew the wiser and so they

435
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.160
had ground that wheat up. So everyone in the village

436
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:18.400
had basically microdosed themselves when they were eating this wheat

437
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.720
making their breads, and that's when maybe some of the

438
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:26.720
weirdness started. But again, it was a perfect powder cake

439
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.440
of all of these other factors going on at the

440
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.720
same time. So there was so much pressure on these people.

441
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:37.519
They were so repressed, they were so angry, hungry, cold, tired, traumatized.

442
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.440
Just everybody wanted everything. Then you have some people who

443
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.160
just expect the world to lie down and give them

444
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.440
what they want. And everything was right for the pick

445
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.960
in and someone must have seen this opportunity and ran

446
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.559
with it, which typically were the two families that the

447
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:59.720
children started the accusations of, and then it just snowballed

448
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.839
from there. I do not believe that there was actual

449
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:10.759
witchcraft taking place unless it was of the accusers' families

450
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.920
who had everything to gain by their own greed. Because

451
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:21.920
the family of the accusers, they were being sued by

452
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.359
almost all of the people who ended up being hung

453
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.480
at the trials.

454
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.839
Well, and I kind of already mentioned this. You know,

455
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:39.079
witchcraft was something that was done in private, but these

456
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:43.119
you know, not once did in any of the evidence

457
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:47.319
that I saw, did it say that, you know, we

458
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.200
saw her dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight,

459
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:57.559
or you know she was stirring up a cauldron. I know,

460
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:01.319
I'm going old school imagery of what people think of witches,

461
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:06.000
but as far as I saw, there was nothing like that, right.

462
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:11.679
No, everything was a spectral. The person came to me

463
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.840
in ghost form, pinched me, pulled my hair, hurt me,

464
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:19.719
shook me, gave me a bad dream, made me dream

465
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.480
of her, which some of the men would say, the

466
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.559
woman made me dream of her in naughty Waiste. It's

467
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.840
so absurd. Yeah, And then some people would have things

468
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.400
happen to their livestock or to their crops, probably faults

469
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.280
of their own right, just because of everything that was

470
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.039
going on at the time, and then they would immediately

471
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.559
blame it on the accused. So everything that happened, people

472
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:49.639
were just piling it on to the people who were

473
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.920
being accused. Oh you know, I stubbed my toe, it's

474
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.039
the witch's fault.

475
00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:59.079
Well, I mean, and that's just kind of human nature.

476
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.159
Blame everything and anything on something supernatural so you don't

477
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.920
have to take any type of credit for what went wrong.

478
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.719
I think it all comes down to personal accountability, and

479
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.320
you know, not to go on a soapbox, but these

480
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.320
people talk about following the Bible and following their religion

481
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.360
so closely, and it seems that they forgot to take,

482
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.159
you know, the giant sprig out of their eye before

483
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.039
judging other people. Because a lot of these things, and

484
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:36.159
this even happens today. I hear people, Oh this and

485
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.480
this and that happens, someone must have cursed me. Okay.

486
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.800
The amount of time and energy it takes for someone

487
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.079
to put a curse, especially like a real good one, right,

488
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.039
that's going to like downfall your life lead to you know,

489
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.920
total calamity. The amount of time and energy that takes

490
00:35:56.199 --> 00:36:01.119
is way beyond someone flipped you. You flip somebody off

491
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:05.039
in traffic, right, or you cut somebody off on the freeway.

492
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:06.719
I mean, unless it was one of those you know,

493
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.480
you almost caused a nine car pileop and took off

494
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.400
type of thing. But I mean little things like that.

495
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.440
Every witch that I know, we all kind of laugh

496
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.480
and we say, why would I get involved in that

497
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:19.400
when karma is going to do a better job than

498
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.239
anything I can come up with.

499
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:29.119
Right, Yeah, well and it Yeah, we'll leave it.

500
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:34.599
Now.

501
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:39.199
We'll get into some of this about the legalities of

502
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:41.440
the sale and witch trials in a little bit here,

503
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:43.639
but I just want to cover this really quick so

504
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.559
we can kind of get into a little more of

505
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.519
the dirt now. Beyond Salem, there were other witch trials

506
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.960
in the Americas. In sixteen ninety two, the same year

507
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.519
as the Salem witch trials. There was one going on

508
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:03.400
in Fairfield, Connecticut, but none resulted in execution, though witchcraft

509
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:07.079
could technically remain a capital crime in Connecticut until the

510
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:11.199
eighteenth century. The course, there were growing skeptical and weary

511
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:14.639
of witchcraft trials. Too many of them, it seemed, were

512
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.159
the result of personal feuds, which we've been kind of

513
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:25.599
already talking about. There was another prior to sixteen ninety two.

514
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:29.039
There was trials going on in Connecticut as early as

515
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:34.239
sixteen forty two, but again there were trials going on

516
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:39.920
in England even prior to that. Other colonies that had

517
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:46.440
witch trials during this time were Pennsylvania, Maryland, in Virginia.

518
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.679
The last recorded which trial was in Salem in eighteen

519
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:55.000
seventy eight against Lucretia Brown. But after listening to the

520
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.960
episode with you and kat, I saw or I heard

521
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.400
that that is actually not true, that it was even

522
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:02.039
past that correct.

523
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:06.639
It did. Actually the last one was nineteen twenty eight

524
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.760
in Pennsylvania, New York a man named Nelson Remeyer. And

525
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.599
I'm wondering if a lot of people aren't getting his

526
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:22.679
name because it's a male versus a female, and you know,

527
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:25.840
but Nelson's story is a very very sad one. But

528
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.880
it's textbook everything that happened in all the other ones.

529
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:32.840
It started with some weird feud. Somebody got something in

530
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:35.480
their head, didn't want to take any personal accountability for

531
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.840
their own actions, and then took off and accused him

532
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:47.800
and it went horrible actually because Nelson ended up murdered. Jeez. Yeah.

533
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:54.400
Well, and something that I feel could possibly have attribute

534
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:57.760
to that is again, you know, we talked I said

535
00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.880
earlier that you know, back then, even in nineteen twenty eight,

536
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.239
it was bad to be a homosexual, and a lot

537
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:10.719
of times if males were accused, it was either they

538
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:14.440
were associated with a witch or there was some type

539
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:20.840
of activity going on, possibly sexual that did them in

540
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:23.840
if you will. So, I don't know if he was

541
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:27.000
a homosexual, but he was not.

542
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:30.400
He was Mary. Actually, he was married, he had children.

543
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:35.159
He was a pow wow healer, and that's actually the

544
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.199
cool part of his story. He was a well known

545
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:43.239
healer in the area. People brought everybody and their family

546
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.199
to him. They actually went to him before they went

547
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.119
to regular medicinal doctors. And he could work on anything

548
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.400
from a physical affliction all the way down to money troubles.

549
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:59.360
Or relationship issues. So he really was a one stop shop.

550
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.239
That was really his life's purpose and he did it

551
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.239
out of the goodness of his heart. People of course

552
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.960
would pay him and give money, but that was his

553
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.599
primary focus. He didn't want to work a nine to

554
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.079
five job. He wanted to be able to be there

555
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.079
for people in his community. It's actually what led to

556
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:18.960
his wife moving out because she didn't like being so

557
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.639
remote in the country. She wanted him to work a

558
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.199
nine to five job, and he said, I'm sorry, like

559
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.719
you knew who I was when I met you, and

560
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.480
so she ended up moving to a house in town.

561
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.719
He stayed out of town. And then, of course these

562
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:38.119
three boys got together and all led by one who

563
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:42.440
honestly a few fries short of a happy meal if

564
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:46.320
you ask me, and in the trial that ended up

565
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:49.840
coming out as well. But basically, this one guy riled

566
00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:55.280
up two other boys and had them help him murder

567
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.679
Nelson because in his mind, oh, if I murdered the

568
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.039
guy who hexed me, then the hecks will be lifted

569
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.519
once again, not taking any accountability or responsibility for his

570
00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:11.119
own bad choices that led to all of the Piddley

571
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.639
drama in his life. That he thought Nilson put on him.

572
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.719
But here's this man who devoted his time and energy

573
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:22.159
to his community, to healing people and giving back. He

574
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.440
would do things for free for people who didn't have

575
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:27.239
money and just say, hey, just pay it forward or

576
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:29.719
give me, you know, make me a nice meal the

577
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.159
next time you cook something, or bake me some bread.

578
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:36.800
And to end the way that he did, not only

579
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.000
did they beat him, but then they set his house

580
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.679
on fire, and unfortunately it was found afterwards that he

581
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:47.199
actually was still alive while the fire consumed him in

582
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:47.679
the house.

583
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:54.480
Jeez. Yeah, Now, did they choose fire because of the

584
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.760
West Trials that were going in England or they were

585
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.360
just trying to kind of like story evidence.

586
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.320
Trying to destroy evidence they realized, oh, their stuff was

587
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:10.440
everywhere after the fact. And also, so pow wow healers

588
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:13.119
in case your audience doesn't know, because it's not a

589
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:17.000
term that's widely used anymore. It comes from an old

590
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.199
Germanic type of hands on healing. Especially the word pow wow.

591
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.719
A lot of people think, oh, that's indigenous or you know,

592
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.639
Native American. It's not. It was also used by the

593
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:32.920
Germanic folk. It's an old type of healing where they

594
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.480
would lay hands and pray. I think they called soothsayers

595
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:43.800
in different cultures, there's different ways. And I also had

596
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:47.400
a pow wow healer in my lineage as well, so

597
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.119
I don't know how many greats. I think it's like

598
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:54.280
three great grandmothers. But she would actually work with the

599
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.719
Native American tribes. They would actually bring their people to

600
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.840
her because she could literally lay her hand over a

601
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.400
cut and it would heal immediately with no scar. So

602
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:09.880
they are powerful. They are somewhat rare, but some of

603
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.360
them are known as river witches or water witches, which

604
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:17.239
still exists today. You will have people who they know

605
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:20.239
how to douse for water. Typically, these are people who

606
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.360
will help you find where your well should go on

607
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.559
your property. They're actually used by reelers still in the

608
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:28.920
South and other parts of the country as well. People

609
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:34.360
might just not admit that, but it's a very intense

610
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.039
energy type of work and it can be used in

611
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:43.199
various different ways. But it's incredible, and you know, again

612
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:46.480
Nelson had it in nineteen twenty eight, we were still

613
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:50.039
dealing with that. That's less than one hundred years ago.

614
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:51.639
That's ninety seven years ago.

615
00:43:52.320 --> 00:44:00.840
Yeah, now getting into kind of like the Samealem witch trials.

616
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.840
And you mentioned this beforehand that the Salem witch trials

617
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:09.480
kind of was a precedent for how we are doing

618
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:13.360
trials now today, So can you explain that a little bit.

619
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.119
Yeah, So, the legal importance of the Salem witch trials,

620
00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:22.719
there's a reason why it used to be in all

621
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:24.960
of our curriculum when we.

622
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:29.559
Were learning about history, and the reason being is because

623
00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:32.760
it ended up changing a lot of laws and setting

624
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.400
certain legal precedents that have to this day, hopefully fingers

625
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:42.599
crossed not been overturned by the judiciary system. Part of

626
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:46.639
those is spectral evidence. The other part of those is

627
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:53.039
making sure that there are good witnesses and actual evidence

628
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:58.400
instead of just hearsay or someone pointing their finger, as

629
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:01.679
well as being able legal to stand up for yourself

630
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:04.960
and saying, wait a minute, this person's accusing me of this,

631
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.599
but did you know that this and not the other

632
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.440
is what they're actually doing, and being able to defend yourself.

633
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:14.280
That really wasn't the case back when this all happened

634
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:17.480
in Salem, and as a result, so many people died.

635
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:26.480
Okay, now I'm assuming that that was the case even

636
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:32.000
in England, that there was no like proving your innocence

637
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:35.440
really back in England. I mean you could, you could

638
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:39.800
kind of say that you weren't guilty, but it was

639
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:44.360
basically you were back then right.

640
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.559
Well, and you know the Mony Python movie if you

641
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:51.960
can remember that one where oh, she's a witch and

642
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.960
then you know they throw her unto the river and

643
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.480
they're like, hey, if you drown, you not a witch.

644
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.360
But if you borrow up, then you're a witch. She's like,

645
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.440
so I lose either way, and he's like pretty what, Yeah,

646
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.119
that's not far off the mark of how it really was.

647
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.519
And a lot of people don't remember. This wasn't just

648
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:13.440
happening in the UK. This was all over Europe and

649
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.800
it was spreading into other parts of the world in

650
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.800
the Middle East and around the Mediterranean as well. Unfortunately,

651
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:24.960
this still happens to this day in certain countries in

652
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:31.400
which they have religious strongholds or townships or villages that

653
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:35.599
are extremists when it comes to their religion. If someone

654
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:41.679
is accused of witchcraft, they're killed, unfortunately, and there it

655
00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:44.840
really is no defending yourself when it comes to someone

656
00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:49.000
saying you're a witch, right, because if someone's making stuff

657
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:53.920
up blatantly and you're saying this is nonsense. How do

658
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:58.320
you defend yourself against that? Less there's you know, unless

659
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.440
the person's going to take you know, a mental acuity

660
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.360
type of attaster, a polograph, right, like, we have stuff

661
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:07.840
like that. But when everyone is in complete histronics and

662
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.079
hysterics about everything going on, everyone's just going to run

663
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:16.119
with it. And again, people love scapegoats, people love not

664
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:19.840
taking responsibility for their own actions. So as a result,

665
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:22.119
it's so much easier to say, oh, so and so

666
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:24.400
is doing this to me, other than hey, I made

667
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:27.800
some really bad choices.

668
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.800
Now, we still have a lot of weird laws in

669
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:38.199
effect in the United States in a lot of states.

670
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:45.320
It's just they're usually not utilized. Are there any laws

671
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:48.800
still in effact in the US today against witchcraft?

672
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:55.599
You know, there are more laws protecting people from fraud.

673
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:01.039
And that kind of goes into the the mediums or

674
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:06.400
the psychics who are taking advantage of people. And it's

675
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:10.480
interesting because something I learned years ago was in order

676
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.519
to be a psychic with a shop like where people

677
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.639
would come in for the readings, the old school way

678
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:18.840
we used to do it, people actually had to get

679
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:22.840
licensed by the local police department and had to have

680
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:28.400
a permit and carry specific insurance. Well in my state anyway,

681
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:32.280
in California on the West coast, and that always interested me.

682
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:36.320
And when I talked to I actually knew someone in

683
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.239
law enforcement and got to pick their brain one night

684
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.400
and I was asking about that, and I said, yeah,

685
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:44.920
it's a legal way for us to make sure that

686
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.360
the person doesn't have a whole bunch of fraud charges

687
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:50.280
in their background, so that they're not builking people out

688
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:52.760
of money left and right, so that we can actually

689
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.199
warn the patrons in advance and say, hey, we know

690
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:59.119
this person has a propensity for taking people for money

691
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.639
or a grifter, so you know, watch your p's and ques.

692
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.239
It still happens. There's tons of ways now that we're

693
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.320
on the internet for people to circumvent that. So things

694
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.400
were a little safer when you had to actually go

695
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:16.320
into an actual shop. And then we had the whole

696
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:18.920
Miss Cleo thing that happened. I'm not sure if you

697
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:23.440
remember those Comercy, but you know she actually went to

698
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:26.760
jail for fraud as well. You know, those are the

699
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.719
phone numbers that you'd call in and it was you know,

700
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.800
five dollars a minute or something. You can ask a

701
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.000
couple of questions other psychics, and there were people actually

702
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.320
on those lines who were psychics who were doing good work,

703
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.199
and then you had other people who were But the

704
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.719
interesting part of all of this is to really think

705
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:47.239
about what do people like this community give that people

706
00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:51.159
are still spending their money with, Because it's very easy

707
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.760
to judge and say, oh, these people are grifters or

708
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:58.320
oh these people shouldn't be doing that, but for some people,

709
00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:02.679
they're actually give peace of mind. They're allowing people to

710
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:06.599
stop grieving knowing what loved one is there wrapping on

711
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:12.000
the table. You know, there was a woman in Scotland

712
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:16.679
in the nineteen twenties and she was a claravoorant in

713
00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:20.719
a medium. She was able to actually conjure up spirits,

714
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:24.400
there were ectoplasm, There was photographer who worked with her,

715
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.079
like there were tons of actual evidence from back then,

716
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:31.840
like one hundred years ago that we couldn't only imagine

717
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.519
like we had access to today. And again it was

718
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:39.599
somebody who didn't like the fact that they thought mom

719
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:44.119
was spending their inheritance with this woman and turned her

720
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:48.400
in and really went you know, through the police in

721
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.159
order to get her arrested and shut down, and so

722
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:55.519
finally she was convicted, which is really really sad because

723
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:57.639
when you think of it, I mean, hey, it's the

724
00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:59.840
mom's money, but be like it was helping her.

725
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.559
She was breathing right.

726
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:04.320
Now.

727
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:09.599
It was that particular case what they used for the

728
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.360
movie Hunting in Connecticut.

729
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:20.760
No, Helen Duncan was in Scotland, and yeah, she was

730
00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:21.719
in Scotland and.

731
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:26.679
In London, Okay, because I mean.

732
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:29.519
She was fined in nineteen thirty three.

733
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:35.800
Okay. I hate to compare it to something in pop culture,

734
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:40.079
but that movie had that imagery in it, so that's

735
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.480
kind of what I was wondering.

736
00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:44.280
Yeah, to be honest with you, I've never seen that movie,

737
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.559
and I know it's on my list to do.

738
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:51.480
Well as a medium. Like I'm sure you don't search

739
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:57.400
out all of the paranormal horror movies that are out there, so.

740
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.320
I'm really really picky with the ones that I do it.

741
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:04.360
Either there has to be something so completely silly like

742
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:06.840
Sabrina the Teenage Witch, right. I used to like that

743
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:10.480
because it's so insane and ridiculous it was enjoyable to watch.

744
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:13.760
Or it has to be something like the Conjuring series

745
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:16.440
where it was based on reality, and I was really

746
00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:19.960
interested in the cases and how they were going to

747
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.239
portray them, although they got the Annabel one like Vastly

748
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:29.239
out of Control on that really great movies, right, And

749
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:33.599
and you know, to all of you listening, please be

750
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:36.400
wary when you are listening to this stuff or when

751
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:40.519
you're watching these movies, do even if it's a little

752
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.840
prayer before or just you imagine a white light bubble

753
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.880
around you before. Because I've watched these things and I've

754
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:51.199
seen things appear. I've gone to movie theaters and had

755
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.639
horrendous experiences with things that have shown up in some

756
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:58.000
of these movies, not really the fictional ones as much

757
00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:02.480
as the ones that are based on true stories. But

758
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:07.679
there was a case and the Warrens were involved, ed

759
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:12.800
Lorraine Warren, and it was in the late sixties early seventies,

760
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:16.360
and I think the movie is The Devil Made Me

761
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:18.079
Do It is the name of it.

762
00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:19.760
Okay, Yeah, it sounds familiar.

763
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:24.840
Yeah, So that's actually a case based on spiritual possession.

764
00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:30.039
The man who was possessed ended up murdering a few people,

765
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:33.480
I think, and it went to trial and he kept

766
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:35.800
saying the devil made me do it, and the Warrens

767
00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:38.639
got involved, and he actually was sent to a mental

768
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:43.719
facility and by law the court had to give him exorcisms.

769
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:47.000
And once he was freed and it was written off

770
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:50.440
by a priest, he was released, and I'm sure that

771
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:52.840
man went into hiding, you know, afterwards, because it was

772
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:55.880
a very public trial and they smeared his name left

773
00:53:55.920 --> 00:54:00.519
and right. But in reality, there were police officers, were actives,

774
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.760
there were social workers, there were priests and nuns who

775
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:09.920
actually witnessed what he was doing and the spectral evidence

776
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:13.760
thereof and we're saying this is not human, like a

777
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:18.000
person cannot make this happen. So it is fascinating how

778
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:22.119
there have been cases like that that have occurred in

779
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.559
our history and on our law books.

780
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:29.400
Yeah, well, and it kind of ties into this, yeah,

781
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:32.559
modern day witch trial sort of count.

782
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:36.519
Yeah, and it's also interesting because that case, in particular,

783
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:41.880
the devil made me do it one, it is fantasized,

784
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:44.800
shall we say, not based on fact that we know,

785
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:50.639
but it is discussed and thought that perhaps the serial killer,

786
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:54.880
the son of Sam, saw that and that is why

787
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:56.880
he started doing some of the things he did. In

788
00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:59.800
his home by saying the dog was talking to him

789
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:02.239
and wrote all the stuff on the wall and used

790
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:05.159
that as a defense because he saw that this one

791
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:08.239
man was able to get off, and so he pre

792
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:11.760
set knowing he was eventually going to get caught, and

793
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:14.679
pre set everything up in order for it to look

794
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:17.440
one way. And that's someone taking advantage of.

795
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:21.760
The system, right, Yeah. I mean how many times have

796
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.760
we heard, well, God made me do it or the

797
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:28.639
devil made me do it. It's yeah. I mean even

798
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:33.960
Jeffrey Dahmer uh before he was killed in prison, was

799
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:40.000
saved again and kind of repented what he did because

800
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:44.159
he felt that it was not him that did it,

801
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:45.639
it was something else altogether.

802
00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:49.840
Yeah, And who's to say that isn't something that they

803
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:53.280
wanted to get clemency or right parole.

804
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.960
Right well, And there are so many people that are

805
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:04.199
unjustly persecuted that I sometimes wonder not necessarily them saying,

806
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:07.519
you know, God made me do it, or that maybe

807
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:07.840
do it.

808
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:07.960
But.

809
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:13.719
I saw this and it was real and they actually

810
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:15.960
killed a person and not what they thought they were killing.

811
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:21.599
But so many people that are our psychic and medium

812
00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:26.679
and don't know it are thrown into mental institutions because

813
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:28.199
they see things that aren't there.

814
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:34.840
One hundred percent. And then we have the advent of psychedelics,

815
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:37.599
and you know, in the nineteen sixties with the hippie

816
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:42.639
revolution then becoming so prevalent in everyday society. You know,

817
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:47.280
you had everyone taking this from the high muckety MUCKs,

818
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:50.039
you know, all the way down to your average person,

819
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:53.079
you know, the street cleaner type of thing, and everyone

820
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:56.599
in between. So then you have that changing people's brain

821
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:02.000
chemistry along with the advent of societiety changing in technology,

822
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:06.679
and you know, we know today that there's technology available

823
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.679
that can actually make you hallucinate or make you hear things.

824
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:13.280
There's voice to school technology. And that's not me being

825
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:16.400
in conspiracy theories. That is real, Like there are actual documents.

826
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:18.880
You can google it and you will find patents for it.

827
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:22.519
I'm not saying it's being used by everyone and be scared.

828
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:25.639
But what I'm saying is there's so many different factors

829
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:28.840
we have now versus back then. And for me, this

830
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.159
is why history is so important that we talk about

831
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:36.159
it and we learn about it because so many things

832
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:39.079
are being thrown at us right People are seeing things

833
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:42.400
in the sky currently or they're having spiritual awakenings or

834
00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:45.760
they're having these experiences. And it's very easy to say, oh,

835
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:48.639
you know, so and so did a little bit too

836
00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:51.519
much on the weekend. You know, he's seeing things again

837
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:54.519
or he thinks he's talking to God. Right, But if

838
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:57.119
you look back and you're saying, okay, two hundred years ago,

839
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:01.079
people were having the same exact thing, and they didn't

840
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.760
have access to any of that stuff. Technology wasn't a thing, right,

841
00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:07.880
The government wasn't doing it. The government didn't even exist yet.

842
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:11.880
So it's that's when you have to look for the

843
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:14.559
other And those are the threads you want to pull

844
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:17.159
on when you're trying to figure out what's what, because

845
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:21.679
it's a very complicated world that we live in. But historically,

846
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:25.360
this is why these older stories are so fascinating but

847
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:28.639
also so rich for us to keep alive so that

848
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:31.880
we don't repeat this awful history again.

849
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:41.039
Yeah, and unfortunately we are doomed to repeat history because

850
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:45.920
very many people do not learn the lessons from history.

851
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:50.199
Well, and then you also get history that's being completely erased,

852
00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:51.679
and then you have history denied.

853
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:54.840
History is written by the victor.

854
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:59.320
So yes, and you know, with the sale and witch trials.

855
00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:03.719
The only reason we know anything about them is because

856
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:07.519
people who were taking notes at the actual trial hid

857
00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:10.280
their journals. Because a lot of people don't know. This

858
00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:13.880
was America's first government cover up when the governor came

859
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.719
in and found out what was really going on. And

860
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:19.639
again that was because these little accusers got mad at

861
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:21.519
him and accused his wife of being a witch, and

862
00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:24.960
he was like, that's it, I'm shutting this down. And

863
00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:29.599
so he realized, oh my god, nineteen people died, nineteen

864
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:33.280
taxpayers died, and their families are still living, and they

865
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:35.159
were going to tell the crowns. So we got to

866
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:39.239
cover this up. So they actually forced the constablary to

867
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:42.639
go through the town in the village and raid everyone's

868
00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:46.920
homes and take their journals and burn them and all

869
00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:49.360
the booklets that talked about what was going on, and

870
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:52.760
to burn all this stuff. But by the grace of God,

871
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:55.800
there were some people who hid them within their mattresses

872
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:00.480
or in their hay bales or wherever, and those got

873
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:04.760
passed down and that's why we still have any information

874
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:05.840
as to what occurred.

875
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:13.239
Wow. Yeah, well, we are close to the end of

876
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.199
the show, so I wanted to give you the chance

877
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:19.079
to tell everybody where they can find you, you know,

878
01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:21.800
talk to you all that could stuff. The MIC's all yours,

879
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:22.519
Thank you.

880
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:30.000
I'm JJ Rose seven seven seven across the board, Instagram,

881
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:34.159
Facebook Talk. I totally forgot what I was doing for

882
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:34.599
a moment.

883
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:39.559
You many social media is to go through now right.

884
01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:44.679
I was like, what's in existence anymore? YouTube is my primary,

885
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.400
that's my channel. All my content is free on there.

886
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:51.400
I don't have a paywall. I am not monetized, so

887
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.639
I apologize in advance for any commercials that you might hear.

888
01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:58.679
But I do have playlists if you're interested in trying

889
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:01.880
to make a little something for everyone interested in the

890
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.480
paranormal world, whether you're a paranormal investigator, having a spiritual

891
01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:09.159
awakening a little more advanced, or just want instructionals from

892
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:12.079
someone who's not trying to sell you something. If you

893
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:14.199
want to reach out to me directly, whether you have

894
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:16.880
questions or you want to talk to me about stuff

895
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.079
that I do, feel free to email me or you

896
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:21.880
could message me as well. Emails a little bit better

897
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:23.960
because it's one on one and it helps me to

898
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:26.199
focus in on your energy a little bit better. Plus

899
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:29.760
you can write more. But yeah, that's me in a nutshell.

900
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:33.199
All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

901
01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:38.760
I mean we probably didn't even tip the iceberg on

902
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:42.119
all the information that is out there about these trials,

903
01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:45.960
but I definitely would love to have you on for

904
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:49.519
other episodes because you were a blast, so I appreciate it.

905
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:52.400
Well, thank you so much. This is truly an honor, Justin.

906
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.800
I'm so excited to be on here with you. Thank

907
01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:56.960
you so much. Thank you to all your listeners too

908
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:58.840
for having me and putting up with me.

909
01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:04.519
All Right, folks, make sure you like share, subscribe wherever

910
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.760
you listen, make sure you subscribe to JJ Rose seven

911
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:11.000
seven seven, and also make sure you check out all

912
01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:14.599
of the great shows that are on United Public Radio Network.

913
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.079
This has been a pre record show for one of

914
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:20.239
seven point seven New Orleans and United Public Radio Network

915
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:23.360
until next week, where you will find us, same time,

916
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:27.360
same channel. My name's Justin. Have a good night,
JJROSE777 Profile Photo
JJROSE777

JJRose777 is a lifelong psychic and all things 6th sense. She is the lead psychic specialist for a paranormal Investigation team, a Ordained Non-Denominational Minister and All Elemental Eclectic Solitary White Witch. She focuses on being a Metaphysical Teacher with her YouTube Channel JJROSE777 where you can find videos from just waking up into the Spiritual world, to advanced videos to help you learn to clear yourself and most especially to Bubble Up which is a form of spiritual protection.