July 6, 2025

The Bad Vibes Field Guide w/Devin Hunter & M. Belanger

The Bad Vibes Field Guide w/Devin Hunter & M. Belanger
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What exactly are “bad vibes”—and can you really clear them out of your home, your aura, or your soul? In this episode of ParaTruth: Reborn, Justin & Erik sit down with Devin Hunter and M. Belanger to explore their powerful new book, The Bad Vibes Field Guide. From psychic self-defense to energy transmutation, we dive into the tools, rituals, and philosophies that can help you shift your space and reclaim your power. Whether you’re feeling energetically drained or just curious about spiritual hygiene, this conversation will leave you charged, grounded, and a little more vibe-aware.

Devin Hunter (San Francisco, CA) holds third-degree initiations in both the Northern Star Tradition of Wicca as well as the Dianic Tradition of Witchcraft (the Cult of Diana) and is the founder of his own tradition, Sacred Fires. His podcast, The Modern Witch, has helped thousands of people from all over the world discover and develop their magical abilities. Devin is currently teaching with the Black Rose School of Witchcraft and is the reigning Master of Ceremonies at the New Orleans Witches’ Ball.

M. Belanger is an occult expert, presenter, singer, psychic, and author of more than thirty books on paranormal topics. Michelle has been featured on TV shows including A&E’s Paranormal State and the Travel Channel's Portals to Hell as a psychic medium and occult expert. Michelle’s nonfiction research in books like "The Dictionary of Demons" and "The Psychic Vampire Codex" has been sourced in television shows, university courses, and publications around the world. A person of many talents, Michelle has performed with musical groups, including the dark metal band URN, and the Gothic duo Nox Arcana, and designed immersive live actions RPGs for companies such as Wizards of the Coast. In the 1990s, Michelle was the editor of Shadowdance, a magazine dedicated to dark fringe culture that has since been reborn as a podcast. Michelle has made appearances on CNN, A&E, Fox News, Reelz, and the History Channel.

Find Devin at https://modernwitch.com/
Find M. Belanger at https://www.michellebelanger.com/

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/paratruth-reborn--6273542/support.

Thanks for listening!

WEBVTT

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Welcome, Well go well do part.

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Truth Truth, What's going on?

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Paratruthers.

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Welcome to another episode of Paratruth Reborn. This is a

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pre recorded show on one of seven point seven FM

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New Orleans and United Public Radio Network. My name is

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Justin and I'm Eric. And tonight we are bringing on

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Devon Hunter and M.

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Doll M.

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Bellinger about the book The Bad Vibes Field Guide. Devon

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Hold's third degree in issues initiations in both the Northern

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Star tradition of Wicca as well as the Dianac tradition

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of witchcraft, and is the founder of his own tradition,

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Sacred Fires. His podcast, The Modern Witch has helped thousands

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of people from all over the world discover and develop

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their magical abilities. And Bellinger is the author of over

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forty books on magic and the occult, including The Psychic

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Vampire Codex and The Dictionary of Demons. Founder of the

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magical group House Capuro, Bellinger has taught energy work, psychic development,

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and past life.

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Work for over thirty years.

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Where the only openly intersects people working in the US television,

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Bellinger is widely recognized for appearances on shows like Paranormal State,

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Portals to Hell and Paranormal Lockdown and any award winning

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game develop designer. Bellinger also crafts journaling role playing games.

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And without further ado, we're going to bring in Devin

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and m Bellinger. Michelle and Devin, Welcome to Paratruth Reborn.

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How are you guys doing tonight?

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A little warm, but otherwise pretty good.

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Little warm.

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Yeah, is very warm at Ohio right now.

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We're kind of doing ups and downs in North Dakota

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sometimes in the eighties, then we're in the seventies, then

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we're down the sixties, back to eighties. It's an odd,

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odd year for nature this year. So we're bringing you

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guys on to talk about the Bad Vibes Field Guide.

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What made you both want to be a part of

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this project and get this book out there?

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I defer to Devon because I'm a part of it,

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because Devon was kind enough to ask me to write

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a little thing to kind of introduce it to the world.

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Okay, well, I mean yes, and right because.

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Michelle I one of the things that I liked about

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Michelle instantly we met, I want to say, like a

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decade ago at a conference before the world ended and restarted,

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and one of the things that we kind of instantly

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connected on was we had a similar kind of approach

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to how we help people when they're in certain circumstances

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of situations.

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And also what we were.

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Interested in researching, you know, on our free time, right

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when we have that free time, and so we you know,

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we hit it off, and my conversations with Michelle over

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the years I think really helped me to distill my

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own processes, my own practices. I mean, of course, Michelle's

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prolific in the fact that they are, you know, on

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all the TV shows and do all the things. But

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that's not the part of Michelle that I'm impressed with

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or that I'm attracted to as a as a creative person.

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I'm attracted to the part of them that is tuned

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in to the world, that is the unseen.

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Right.

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And so when the idea of jumping out of my

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usual niche, which is writing about witchcraft and a cult

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in that kind of way and switching gears to the

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hat that I've worn really my whole life. Before I

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was a professional witch I was a professional psychic medium,

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and so this has always been my life's work. It's

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always been what I wanted to do. I ended up

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writing books on witchcraft first, but this was the first

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let's hop over, let's see if we can play into this,

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this other part of my work and who I am,

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And so it seemed completely appropriate to reach out to

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Michelle and say, hey, Michelle, would you be interested in

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writing the forward to my manual for how to take

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care of some.

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Of these things that we run into? And I was

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lucky because they said yes. No.

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Well, if I remember the conversation, I remember where your

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booth was and just sort of like chit chatting in

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front of the table. Part that was talking about how

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to pass these concepts onto different audiences, like what language

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to use, how to communicate to people who might not

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have the perspective that a witch or somebody was raised with,

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like psychic mediumship as a background, because for me, my

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psychic self defense book is the ghost Hunter's Survival Guide,

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because that was the audience that needed this stuff but

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didn't really have context at the time. And I could

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see you noodling about, like how do I take my

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perspective and communicate it effectively to people who need it

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in a language that is going to be accessible to them.

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Bingo, yeah, well now and you can both answer this question,

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of course, but how do you personally define BA bad vibes?

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And are they always external or can they stem from

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like internal emotional states as well?

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Yes, right, yes, and all the result.

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The So this was a tricky thing because my when

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I originally sat down to write this book, it was

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specifically looking at people who felt they were afflicted by

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some sort of thing, right, whether it's energy or into

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tea or you know whatever. And I think any psychic

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worth their salt, any spiritual medium with their salt, is

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always going to the first place they're going to look

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is inside, and they're going to tell you to look

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inside and take care of the stuff, because the stuff

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can you know, our internal turmoil can cause all kinds

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of issues that we would interpret it bad vibes in

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the books the way that I approach it, because the

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audience shifted just a wee little bit to include people

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who were spiritual but not religious, people who felt things

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but weren't sure what to do about it, right, And

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they didn't necessarily want to sign up for a cult

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or religion or like any of those other things.

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They just wanted information.

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And so the way that we approach bad vibes in

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the book is really anything that makes you feel dissonant

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in your environment, right, And so that can come from

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stuff that's happening inside of you, that can come from

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a spirit that you're perceiving, that can come from a

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generational issue, I can come from every whey, right. And

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I think we do a disservice in the paranormal world

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when we instantly jump to there's a ghost, there's a demon,

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there's a what you know, in my work, one of

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the things that I've I've been called to you a

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lot of cases where we end up determining it's a

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poltergeist kind of thing, where it's really coming from inside

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the house. You know, it's really started by somebody who

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wasn't able to be in a balanced place and it

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causes disturbances.

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Right. So I the book.

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One hundred percent attacks that, like that's one of the

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first things we go into and to the point where

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you can't really deal with if we want to get

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into the heavier stuff where let's say there is a demon,

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let's say there is some really hard core stuff going on.

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By the time it gets that back, by the time

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those things that there have been all of these moments

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that you could have burst the pressure, you could have

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taken the the power away from this the entity or

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the situation. And a lot of the times, those those energies,

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those entities, they're going to come at you and they're

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going to look for your abilities. And so if you're

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somebody who struggles with alcoholism and that's really been a

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dark place in your life, that's what those things are

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going to go right towards. And I don't even necessarily

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after all these years, I don't even think it's like

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a malicious thing.

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I don't think that they're like I.

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Have to go screw a bunch of people over and

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I think it's more like they need food and that's

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their food. That's what they are attracted to.

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You know, asty and easy exactly. Yeah.

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So I mean Michelle like, yeah, because bad vibes, that's

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like a big yeah.

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I mean, that's that's actually why I thought calling it

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bad vibes was kind of a master's stroke because it's

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really easy to say psychic attack or demons or dark entities,

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and all of that gives the stuff way too much power.

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So bad vibes may sound a little twee to some people,

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but like it really is just like there's just an

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energy and maybe it's you and maybe it's that, and

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it doesn't matter because here's how to fix it.

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Yeah.

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I'm glad you guys bring that stuff like that up

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because I mean, we've talked about it for years.

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But you know, is it just.

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People thinking it's something that's affecting them or is something

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feeding off of them? Because we all get into that

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type of mindset every once in a while that you know,

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everything's messed up. You know, we're not doing what we're

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supposed to be doing, and spiritual entities can attach that.

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Most people want to believe that that's not the case,

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but I believe one hundred percent that they can affect us.

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There is a difference between mental illness and then you know,

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you know, spiritual attack. But it's one of those things

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where in the paranormal community they try to make it

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one side or the other.

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Yeah.

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Well, and there is the thing with mental illness and

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trauma and psychological problems and psychic attack and all of

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that stuff is there's this weird line of terrible things

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are happening to you, and now you are experiencing stress

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and trauma. So the terrible things are even more terrible,

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and you have to come at it from both sides,

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like that trauma needs to be addressed from the perspective

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that you would ordinarily treat a psychological wound, and also

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you cannot rule out the fact that there are energetic

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things that could be spawning from that could have triggered it,

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and those also need to be addressed. So so a

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multi pronged approach is the best way to resolve the issue.

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Right, I think it's added Go ahead, right, go ahead?

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Hell isn't it can add to that?

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I would say that in my experience, a lot of

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the times when we are in a position where we

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are stressed out, we're in a bad place ourselves mentally, emotionally,

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whatever we are. We like said four, we're kind of

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plumping juicy for the picking. But the flip side of that, too,

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is is that we live in this world where we

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tend to think of psychic stuff as being this receptive experience,

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that it's all about receiving and feeling, and that's half

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of the story, maybe a third of the story. Okay,

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So if you are a spiritual being and you are psychic,

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and you are I think most I think a lot

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of people are I think a lot of people have

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those things already turned on, even just a little bit.

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And if you are one of those people and you

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have kind of tuned into something that is stressful and

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it is causing you know, internal disturbance, it's causing anxiety,

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fear of those sorts of things, you become a battery

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that's just pumping that energy out because that psychic thing

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works both ways, right, So I think we get into

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more of that in occultism. We start to talk about

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the projective kind of ability of this of the human spirit.

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But in the paranormal world we're so often talking about

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you know, running into energies and kind of absorbing things

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on accident or having something stuck to you on it.

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And at least in occultism, we kind of approach it

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from a holistic standpoint as much as possible, we tend to.

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And so I feel a little lucky coming at all

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of this from that perspective, and that, you know, we

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can flip the paradigm around and just look at it

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a little differently. You know, if you're playing, if you're

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fixing a Rubik's cube, you have to flip it around

224
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to solve the puzzle, right, and so I think a

225
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book like this. What was exciting to me to kind

226
00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:18.600
of get back to that first question A little bit

227
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.080
about this project was that it was we were able

228
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to take both of those fields and really bring them together.

229
00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:28.759
Yeah, And I mean for me, I bring part of

230
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.039
my psychology background into stuff. I think you can't really

231
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.639
have psychic without psychology, Like you need to look at

232
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.200
it's all happening in your head one way or the other. U.

233
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You know, are there instances where classic demonic infestation or

234
00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:50.919
what that happens. Yes, And the most the most classic

235
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.840
case of demonic possession that I ever got called into handle.

236
00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:59.559
The girlfriend called me in because she was witnessing what

237
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was happening happening. There was like intense poltergeist like stuff.

238
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She had seen this thing like it was friends saw

239
00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.360
and were experiencing attacks from it. But at the core,

240
00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.399
the person who was the focus, he had been in

241
00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.840
jail for a while, so we had a bunch of

242
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trauma related to that. He had a bunch of trauma

243
00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.000
related to childhood stuff. There was addiction in the core

244
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.480
there too, and there was a lot of just deeply

245
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:31.120
unresolved wounds on his part, and an ability to project

246
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:36.279
his emotions, his emotional turmoil, and effectively he had created

247
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.399
an eggregor he had created this demon that was attacking

248
00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:44.120
him that was in many ways the embodied imagining of

249
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everything that he was carrying around, but it was so

250
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intense that it was now real. Other people were experiencing it,

251
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and so he'd gone to a lot of people and

252
00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:56.919
they were like, it's all on your head, Like, it's

253
00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:58.960
all on your head, And all he took away from

254
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.840
that was your crazy and these things aren't happening. But

255
00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:03.919
you know, he's got his girlfriend to go, but these

256
00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.559
things are happening. So the solution there was to very

257
00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:13.120
gently explain, yes, it's real, and also it will not

258
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.159
go away until you address these other things. And you

259
00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:20.399
are a part of this and you can't extricate yourself

260
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.559
from it until you seal those wounds. And I was

261
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.279
lucky enough to to a friend of a friend be

262
00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:30.159
able to refer him to a counselor in his area

263
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:34.039
who was open to really wild and weird stuff and

264
00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:36.799
was able to like actually get him to a point

265
00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.440
where he could kind of separate himself and his trauma

266
00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:43.440
and his entity and everything else that was attacked.

267
00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:44.879
But like if.

268
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I didn't have my background and I just judged what

269
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.559
was going on, like I'd have been calling an old

270
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:56.039
priest young pulling it a hold like Poulin water, but

271
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:57.080
he wouldn't have solved.

272
00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.120
His problem, right.

273
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.360
He actually dealt with a woman who had a similar situation.

274
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.919
She she claimed there was a demon upstairs in her

275
00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:10.320
attic and her son sought regularly as well. She said this,

276
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.840
It was with them for a couple of months before

277
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:15.600
she reached out to Sir Justin and I. Anyway, we

278
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:17.879
went through I come from a very Christian background, so

279
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.679
we went through prayer and talked to her about different

280
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.440
ways to get rid of it. And you know, it's

281
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.080
pretty wild because like even in a prayer group where

282
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.200
we were praying over her, I didn't tell anyone's situation.

283
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.200
But one of my friends came up to me and said,

284
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.320
while we were praying, I heard about this demon and

285
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:34.720
he explained it to a t of what she told

286
00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:36.879
me it was, and I was like, well, that's wild, right,

287
00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.320
But I also learned later, like about a week later,

288
00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.240
because apparently it disappeared and then a week later she

289
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.080
told me that it's back, and I kind of got

290
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.240
her eventually to kind of tell me what's really deep,

291
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.480
like the deeper things that are happening. And she was

292
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:54.080
living with her mother at the time, who was causing

293
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.559
her great stress and anxiety. They did not get along

294
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:58.960
at all, and as soon as her mom came to

295
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:00.759
she was gone for like ak or something, and she

296
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.399
came back to the house and suddenly this entity appeared again. So,

297
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:07.080
you know, we had to go through that and explain

298
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.320
to her, like how these type of emotions, how these

299
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.519
relationships can actually create these entities and make things seem

300
00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:15.679
you know, I mean, it's very much real, there's no

301
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.519
question about that at that point. But there are other

302
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.799
ways to remove the entity, and part of it comes

303
00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:26.360
with the healing process between the relationships that she's in now.

304
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.039
And it raises the really weird question of like is

305
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.720
it a created thing coming from the person or is

306
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.159
it an external thing that is very conveniently using that

307
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.840
as the mask that it wears. And there's a point

308
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.960
where you can't always tell, right And for me, we

309
00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.559
both like all of the above at once. And one

310
00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.840
of the things that I liked about Devin's book is

311
00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.600
it's not concerned about like so much the like minutia

312
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.799
of identifying it down to a core, it's how do

313
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.159
you address the problem. Where do you start where the

314
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.519
building blocks to get to a place where you are

315
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.200
in a healthier space and it's not your problem anymore?

316
00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.559
Now, How like for the normal person that may not

317
00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:17.559
have the sensitivities or not have them as as much

318
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.799
as others, how can you differentiate and distinguish between a

319
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:26.359
natural emotional response and and you know, energetic disturbance or

320
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:31.039
negative entity attaching onto that that energy.

321
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.319
So a lot of it just comes down to observing yourself,

322
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.039
being aware of know thyself, as the old term says. Right,

323
00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.799
So you know, I often tell people, you know, oh,

324
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.200
your anxiety sounds a lot like your spirit guide, right right,

325
00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.200
and people get really upset worked Uput, oh my spirit

326
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.599
guite's telling me that is your spirit guide?

327
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:51.599
Or is that their anxiety?

328
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:51.839
Right?

329
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.000
So let's sleep on it, right, let's think about it.

330
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.519
So, what we know with paranormal activity is that if

331
00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.359
it's something that we have to be worried.

332
00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:02.480
About, it'll come back, It'll it'll repeat, it'll be repetitive.

333
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:02.720
Right.

334
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.799
If it's something that is triggered by you, then the

335
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.839
the repetition is going to come once the event is triggered,

336
00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.960
because X y Z hap me right. Otherwise you're looking

337
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:18.440
at a very When I try to tell people, whether

338
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.039
it's a I'm working one on one with a client

339
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.039
or we're in a big conference and there's a bunch

340
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.079
of people, and yeah, I try to always circle back

341
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:27.799
to this idea that you have all the power. You

342
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.640
have all the power. And this was a really hard

343
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.519
thing to learn, like early on in my just my

344
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.200
life as a as a psychic medium and going through

345
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.880
and I would get into these cases where people were

346
00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:43.839
just they had no power over no no power over themselves,

347
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.519
no power over their lives. They were in dark places,

348
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.000
just mentally and spiritually. And I'm like, I don't I

349
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:50.880
don't personally care who you pray to.

350
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:51.240
I don't.

351
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.720
I don't give us that's between you and them, right,

352
00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.400
we all have our own imaginary friend, right, Like I'm

353
00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.359
okay with mine, you, I'm okay with you having yours.

354
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.279
Right where we all The problem is when we try

355
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:03.079
to stick a bunch of we try to stick everything

356
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.400
into a dome where we're all using the same words.

357
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:08.680
We're all using the same terms.

358
00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:10.640
And because you know, if I say demon de I

359
00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:13.960
as a as an occultist and as a paranormal person

360
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.440
who demon is a very loaded word for me in

361
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.079
a way it is not loaded for my mom, who

362
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:22.680
is religious and is very world So yes, very heavy term,

363
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:23.839
but in a different way.

364
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:24.200
Right.

365
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.680
And so once we start really working with people and

366
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.400
we really start talking, I think it if we were

367
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:32.680
to push just the spiritual stuff, the psychic stuff away

368
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.279
from it, we're dealing with a very human experience. That's

369
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:40.319
the first thing. There's nothing abnormal about your paranormal a stuff.

370
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.000
Not that you're not special or not that you know,

371
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:42.640
but none of that.

372
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.240
But this is a.

373
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.240
Human thing that you're you're going through. And so if

374
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.839
you're worried about you know, I am I experiencing something

375
00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.559
that's authentic or is this something that might be we'll

376
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:56.720
say a little bit more on the imaginary side or

377
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:01.759
the influenced side. Then take take time, think about it,

378
00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:03.880
meditate on it. Right. The other thing too, I think

379
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:05.960
is really important and this is so hard for a

380
00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:08.680
lot of people, and I get it, But have good

381
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.119
people in your life, and when I because you want

382
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:13.960
to go to them and say I had decide this.

383
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.799
Weird thing happen. I feel a little blah, I feel

384
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.799
like this is weird. Can you come check this out? Right?

385
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.720
One of the best spiritual mentors in my life as

386
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:26.319
somebody who's not at all spirituals are an atheist, and

387
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.200
they were able to look at a situation go, you

388
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.519
do realize this is psycho right, or you do realize

389
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:31.400
this is not healthy?

390
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.640
Right?

391
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:33.960
And of course I know that, but hearing that from

392
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.480
somebody who's not into any of this is so grounding, right,

393
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.839
and it allows you to approach things in a way

394
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.920
that takes the pressure off of your spirituality. We as

395
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.000
human beings, whether even again my atheist friends, they're very

396
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.000
invested in their spiritual view right, and so we we

397
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.400
love that that search for ourselves. We put a lot

398
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.920
of pressure on ourselves. We're traditionally taught, especially here in

399
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.799
the States, to have a lot of you know, spirituality

400
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.960
is very heaving, long term influences in our lives, things

401
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.400
like that. So I think if we're able to cut

402
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.960
a lot of the stuff out and we get to

403
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.559
the we distill it. You're a human having a very

404
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.960
human experience, even if it is a very spiritual experience.

405
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.400
It's still very human and where's your power in the situation.

406
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:17.599
So if you don't know, that's the first place to look.

407
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.920
Where's your power in the situation? Right, And if you

408
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:21.920
need backup, you need a friend to come in and say, hey,

409
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.279
it's a little weird, that's okay, that's a good thing.

410
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:28.279
What I learned is I can't go to my super

411
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.240
spiritual Wulu friends with all my problems because they're especially

412
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.160
at this point because I've written books and I've been

413
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.039
on TV and things, people just assume I'm right about everything,

414
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.319
and I'm like, no, no, no, I need you to

415
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.720
talk to me about talk me down right, like you know.

416
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:43.480
So I have.

417
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:47.480
Learned very much to just keep if this is what

418
00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.599
you do on a day to day basis, keep your

419
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:54.680
community open, keep your influences open, right, so that you

420
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.599
have the ability to step out of the box when

421
00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.279
you need to. And if you're somebody who doesn't have that,

422
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.359
then you know what I say is ultimately you need

423
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:05.920
to look for that. If it's part of your daily life,

424
00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:07.799
you need to look for that because it's part of

425
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:08.599
your toolkit.

426
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.240
Right. Did I answer your question and I go off

427
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.519
a whole time? No, from my part.

428
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.920
I'm a broken record about journaling, But keep a record, like,

429
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.759
write down what are you experiencing? But more than that,

430
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.640
what do you feel? What was your day?

431
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:26.319
Like?

432
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.039
Like what else is going on that? And get a

433
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.559
record so you can compare, like when does this happen?

434
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.119
When it is more likely to happen if you're really

435
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:37.279
worried that it's all in your head and you happen

436
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.400
to have pets, do they react to it? Like are

437
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:45.119
they seeing something? Because you can't front load your cat

438
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.160
to see a ghost or your dog to bark at,

439
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.200
you know, the bad weird energy in the corner your

440
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.319
your friends. You might be able to front load, especially

441
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:58.240
if they're wooh wooh like you and you've gotten them

442
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.279
all spun up about it. But if you've got like

443
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.119
an animal that is responding to it, that's a pretty

444
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:07.160
good indication that there's something going on. But that that record,

445
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.920
especially if you don't have the option of having other

446
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.240
people around you that you feel comfortable to trust, and

447
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:19.759
you feel comfortable to trust their perspective, getting data and

448
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.559
a long bit of data to get a sense of

449
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.200
like what's actually going on is pretty much your best approach.

450
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:28.680
This is so interesting, right, now.

451
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:33.640
I do have to say, like with the pets, Like,

452
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:35.519
you know, I told you, Michelle that I've had my

453
00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:39.000
cats for eleven months now, and prior to that, you know,

454
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.480
it's been a while since I've lived with animals and

455
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.680
I've seen mind you, my house is sixty years old.

456
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.680
My mom grew up here and my grandfather owned it,

457
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:49.839
and it's been haunted ever since she was a little girl,

458
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:51.839
and it was haunted when I grew up.

459
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:53.400
And I was able to clear it once I moved

460
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:53.720
back in.

461
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:56.880
But every once in a while, the cats, you know,

462
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:00.519
everything's fine, and suddenly their first stands up. They look

463
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.119
out into the hallway that you know that I can

464
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.839
see plant and there's nothing there, but they see something

465
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.519
and immediately it's like I'm in like investigation mode. Maybe

466
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:12.559
not literally going into a ghost investigation, you know, but

467
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:15.720
I'm investigating myself. I'm investigating the situation, like what are

468
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.960
they seeing, what are they feeling?

469
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:18.279
Things like that.

470
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.680
And it's really cool because one of our friends actually,

471
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:24.599
who also has a podcast on the network that we're with,

472
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.119
she said that she has this feeling she kind of

473
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:32.039
senses that these cats are kind of spiritually connected with me.

474
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:37.160
Throughout multiple ages of life, you know, and it's like

475
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:39.680
ever since they came into my life, it's just there's

476
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:43.680
this connection with the spiritual. They're like, Okay, this is

477
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000
kind of wild because things cleared up real fast when

478
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.599
they came in here too, almost as if whatever was here.

479
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.640
It's like, no, but black cats are here, We're out,

480
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.519
you know. The reason why stereotypical.

481
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:59.200
Like theing Egyptians knew what they were talking about. And

482
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.160
then listen, I and like we I refuse to live

483
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.880
in a house without cats because they show things away.

484
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.480
And they kept like I swear to it.

485
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.119
Like I've got I've got an outside cat. I don't

486
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.920
even know where she came. She first showed up during

487
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:21.039
the solar eclipse, and she left me over the course

488
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:26.039
of several weeks three rusted iron nails wow, which are

489
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:29.279
trapitionally used for protection, right hear it? Over winter, I

490
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.559
worried maybe she got She came back and again introduced

491
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.480
herself with a series of three rusted iron nails. Identical nails.

492
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:38.240
That's crazy.

493
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:42.000
Yeah, No, seriously, like she's she's bizarre, and also like

494
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.319
she's not an indoor cat. I'm I'm like, nope, you

495
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.839
were just walking the perimeter. You're there to like, keep up,

496
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.839
I'm this Ozzie get some fancy east every day in

497
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:57.319
colored gray, right, not entirely convinced she's entirely that's fine too.

498
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:05.799
So there's so many ways to clear one's energy, and

499
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.279
I've seen so many of them. You've got a bunch

500
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.799
listed in the book. How should someone choose what works

501
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:13.279
for them?

502
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:15.160
Literally?

503
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:17.359
What works for them? Like, try a bunch of stuff.

504
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:20.640
And if you're doing something you just feel so painfully awkward,

505
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.000
don't do that. If it makes you feel silly, if

506
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.720
you can't get behind it, don't do it. If it's

507
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:29.039
if there is something that is not written in the book,

508
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.880
and you're like, well, I have a feeling that maybe

509
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.240
if I tried this, it would work, and that excites

510
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:35.880
you and that makes you feel safe.

511
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.039
Do that, Okay, yeah, I.

512
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.119
It's so I have gone through I've worked with some

513
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.759
of the best teachers, and you know, I've had some incredible,

514
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:50.799
credible people come and try to teach me how to

515
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.119
do the things right. And at the end of the day,

516
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:00.079
what I've learned is that it doesn't matter if if

517
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.759
there's a one size fits all solution that everyone else

518
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:05.720
has it may not fit for you. As you know,

519
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.759
we were just kind of kind of hinting around to

520
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.359
the point where I grew up in the age where

521
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.799
you could just clear everything with white sage, just burn

522
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.160
the white stage and it would just take care of it.

523
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.359
Well, here's an interesting thing. I never liked white sage.

524
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:20.200
I thought it stank, and you know, I use it

525
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.759
if I gotta, you know, that kind of thing, but

526
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.319
it never really resonated with me, and I would often

527
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:30.000
leave the experience like jittery. And then I found out

528
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.160
during an herbal course that was taking that there is

529
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.039
a chemical in white stage that when it is burned,

530
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.880
it's re releases and it causes anxiety, and so it

531
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.000
from that's why it shoes things away. And I'm like, okay,

532
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:44.119
that makes a lot of sense.

533
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.480
But for me that did not. I didn't want to

534
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:47.039
go to right.

535
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:48.920
So it have these teachers, you know, if this is

536
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.039
how you cleanse yourself, and it just didn't work, or

537
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.000
I didn't understand the depth of what I should be

538
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.960
experiencing during it cleansing right. And so it took a

539
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:02.599
long time, using different methods, trying different things out to

540
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.160
find what actually worked. For me, and also learning that

541
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.880
that same thing may not work in every situation. Right,

542
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.319
So I have for me and I talk about this

543
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.640
in the book. I have a kind of go to

544
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.960
things that I'll do on a more regular basis, And

545
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:21.039
then even to this day, I still will go to

546
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.279
a friend of mine who practices a completely different tradition

547
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.480
and I will go, hey, can I hire you to

548
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:29.680
do a cleansing on me for you know, or do

549
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.319
a cleansing for me, just because I want to know things,

550
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.039
I want to feel, things I want to experience, you

551
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.400
know those things. But I also know that I don't

552
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.799
know everything right, and I can walk through especially with this.

553
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:42.640
You guys know this stuff we get called in to

554
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.599
go take care of and do, and you know, so

555
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:45.119
you never know.

556
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:47.279
So I'm always like, hey, just at least once a year,

557
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:49.319
have somebody else come in take a look like that's cool.

558
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.279
Now everybody can do that, and I totally get that.

559
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.039
But if you have the again, have you have friends,

560
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.039
if you have pets, things that are signaling, take advantage

561
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.440
of it. Practice different types of cleansing methods. And one

562
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.680
of the thing, it's often a lot easier I think

563
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.720
than people are expecting it to be. I know, sound

564
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:08.119
is a big thing for me. I love working with sound.

565
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:11.240
I have a music background, and so it just seemed

566
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.759
very natural to me to work with sound as a

567
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.319
cleansing method. And it also makes sense we're the only

568
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.240
vibrations and all of those things really line up. And

569
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.480
then one of the things that I was really surprising

570
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:25.640
to me. I took this laughter yoga class as just

571
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.240
a thing for a friend because they wanted to do

572
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:29.920
it kind of a thing. And I walked and the

573
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.519
whole experience is just you make yourself laughs and you

574
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.559
release endorphins, right, And I realized that what a great

575
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.720
tool to use for cleansing, right.

576
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.519
And so I had a had a house call.

577
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.160
I went in and the woman had they were having

578
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.480
all kinds of experiences and there was a lot going,

579
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:50.200
a lot of different things happening off the house, and

580
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.240
there were kids and a lot of stuff, and she

581
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:57.240
needed to cleansing right, but they were allergic to certain things.

582
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.720
You couldn't burn it like, there was a lot of

583
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.799
a lot of going into it. We had to kind

584
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.359
of dance around and get the cleansing done. Okay, so

585
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.839
how about we do this? So I had her have

586
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.359
a party, invite all of her friends over with a

587
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:12.079
couple of glasses of wine and tell some jokes and

588
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.759
start laughing and really get raucous and and get that

589
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.000
energy up and then go touch the walls. Right, so

590
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:23.079
a residual haunting happens. How how do you take care

591
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:23.359
of that?

592
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:24.160
Right?

593
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.599
We all grow up in that said, here's here, we

594
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:28.559
were in the nineties. We know how to record over tapes,

595
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:30.160
we know how to take care of you know. So

596
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.960
it's it's this idea that, like some something as simple

597
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.440
as laughter can have a profound effect. And I'm not

598
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.279
trying to be like I hope you know, No, it's

599
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:41.319
that it works.

600
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:46.079
So so some of the darkest stuff, they don't have

601
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.160
a sense of humor. If you ever seen me on

602
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:50.680
the TV shows, I give the scariest stuff, the most

603
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.640
ridiculous nicknames, and I try to get those nicknames dick

604
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:59.039
because humor chases away some of the nastiest stuff. It

605
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.960
literally cannot it doesn't know what to do. It doesn't

606
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:05.640
have that. So, yeah, no laughter, humor, there's there's a

607
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.319
great deal.

608
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:06.839
Of power there.

609
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.960
And it not means to mockery, but like actual like

610
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.480
belly laugh silliness.

611
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.799
Yeah, I mean, because you do need to.

612
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.799
If we're talking about it from a strictly psychic you know,

613
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.640
a psychic perspective, you are creating a massive amount of

614
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.839
energy when you do that. But it really does have

615
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.640
to come from an authentic place. It really has to

616
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.759
be an authentic experience, right, because when you're having that

617
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.319
experience with the spirit, it's authentic, right.

618
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:34.240
So yeah, so you really got to do it. You can't,

619
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:37.759
you can't have it, right, But there's something really powerful

620
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:37.960
to that.

621
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:39.880
So I so when it comes to cleansing methods to

622
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.720
kind of circle back, sometimes the most simple thing will

623
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:46.680
be the most effective in your situation. And sometimes the

624
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:49.839
thing that you were told would take care of it

625
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.839
is so off from who you are and what you

626
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:55.839
do that it's not going to be effected. It doesn't really,

627
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:57.400
you know, matter how you how many times you're going

628
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.440
to try it way, So it really is Michelle's trial

629
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.079
and error. You got to practice things. You got to

630
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.920
roll the dice and see how it goes and then

631
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:05.279
build from there.

632
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:06.519
Yeah, and at the.

633
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:08.079
End of the day, I think there's a great deal

634
00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:11.079
of power in taking your power, like being the one

635
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.839
who does it like, there's to become that empowered to

636
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.240
conquer the fear is the most fool proof way to

637
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.960
drive stuff away, and sometimes you're just not in the

638
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:28.960
headspace to do that. So being comfortable with someone to

639
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:32.680
help you, Like, there's nothing wrong in asking for that

640
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.119
help and finding someone who is reputable to assist you,

641
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:40.359
especially if you can't extricate yourself emotionally from the experience.

642
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.839
And a little side to that, So in my other

643
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:49.720
books and my other things, I talk about putting energy

644
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.920
in things so you can store that energy and access

645
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.920
of later. So if you are having a really good

646
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.400
day and you're feeling yourself and you're feeling on fire

647
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.240
and all those things, grab a crystal, grab a thing

648
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.680
that you're gonna use, a pendant or whatever is important

649
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.279
to you, and load that sucker up with that energy.

650
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.079
Because there's gonna be a day where you feel like, oh,

651
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:07.359
you know.

652
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.119
The tail end of a horse, and you're not feeling

653
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:11.799
like you can connect, you're not feeling like you can

654
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.559
grind yourself and you if you have that, you can

655
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.640
go grab that thing. It's it's push the button, It'll

656
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:19.200
do it for you, you know what I mean. So

657
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.720
it's also about preparing for the days when it's gonna rain,

658
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.240
right and know that if you've got an umbrella, it's

659
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:28.640
gonna be a lot easier to get through that storm.

660
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.279
Okay, well no, So I mean you guys are really

661
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.880
saying that anyone should just try anything to some extent,

662
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.759
you know, in terms of cleansing the energy. But we've

663
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:43.559
had the number of people on our show actually who

664
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.079
have said some similar things talking about energy. But then

665
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.200
they'll say, but you shouldn't use this method to cleanse

666
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.119
because this method belongs to a particular people group, for example,

667
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:55.519
staging Native Americans, and so there's a lot of people

668
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.039
who tend to fear or believe they shouldn't or couldn't

669
00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:01.519
do it. So can you just do you have anything

670
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:02.839
you can say to those type of people who are

671
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.359
listening right now who maybe want to try that but

672
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.280
are too fearful and you know, because they're schedly going

673
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:09.360
to offend somebody.

674
00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:14.159
Yeah, this has actually been a big conversation that we've

675
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.199
had a lot in the occult world because there's there's

676
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:20.079
a lot of accidental appropriation that happened over the years,

677
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:23.920
and we're kind of reconciling that now as we're able

678
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.440
to dis communicate more and kind of cross boundaries of community.

679
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.920
And you know, I grew up going to literally going

680
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.920
to pow wows and being taught to smudge by Native people,

681
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.519
and I always assumed that was okay and that and

682
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.480
you know, I was taught this with the specific intention,

683
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.400
as it was conveyed to me, that it was medicine

684
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:49.159
that was being shared and that I was to go

685
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.320
do it would make the world better by practicing it.

686
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.679
And so I still hold to that truth because that's

687
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.840
how it was given to me in a very authentic

688
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:01.480
setting that said, I don't I don't sell White Stage

689
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:04.199
in my store, right and so, and the reason why

690
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.199
I won't do that is because I live in the

691
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.920
place where white Stage comes from, and I'm surrounded by

692
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:12.679
these tribes and I know from talking to them that

693
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.719
they feel like the work with the White Sage was

694
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.719
appropriated by other indigenous cultures and then taught to people

695
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.960
who were outside of that culture. And so they're saying, hey,

696
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:26.679
you're doing this in this in this contextual way that

697
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:30.159
is not appropriate. And I had to really sit down

698
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:32.440
and figure that out what does this mean? And you know,

699
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.159
and at the end of the day, it does get

700
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.519
down to you, let's be respectful of any living people

701
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.159
and their memory and any people who aren't living.

702
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.079
Their memory thing. You just going to be respectful of people.

703
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:48.119
Were all people having a human experience, right, But that

704
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:52.840
being said, they don't. No culture has all the answers.

705
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.400
It doesn't matter who you are, right, The Romans didn't

706
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.599
have all the answers that we America doesn't have all

707
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.519
the answer. We know, culture in any set has all

708
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.320
the answers. And so I think to say, oh, I

709
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:06.639
want to try some like white stage and that is

710
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.360
going to be the thing that fixes it. But it's

711
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.960
outside of my culture, so I can't use that. Okay, No,

712
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:13.559
not really right, Like it works in that culture in

713
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:16.800
that setting. Right, So if we were to talk about

714
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.960
any other herb or any other situation, Palo Santo's a

715
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:20.360
great thing.

716
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.320
I love Pala Santa Michelle. I know you like place.

717
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.039
I like it for you.

718
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:26.079
I'm also deeply allusic to it.

719
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:30.880
It's heavy, right, but that's something that like the wood,

720
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:33.800
the trees have to fall and be on the ground

721
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.480
sun baked for four years before they can legally be harvested.

722
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.119
So there's like protections around it.

723
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.400
Right, So there's a whole lot that goes into a

724
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:44.639
lot of these practices that are related to.

725
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.199
What we consider to be indigenous practices.

726
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:48.800
And I've had people on the other side say, well,

727
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.760
you're white, so you can't do anything that it doesn't

728
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.840
come from white people. I've had white people tell me this, right,

729
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:55.519
and then I have my Indian friend go, no, that's crap,

730
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:56.400
what are you talking about.

731
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.039
It creates so like, no, you got to do this

732
00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:58.519
way and that.

733
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.280
So I think at the end of the day, if

734
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:07.000
you if you are respectful and you are listening, and

735
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:10.440
you're not going around trying to teach people somebody else's

736
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:16.679
cultural heritage, I think experience right if it's available to you,

737
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.159
And I would say that was just about anything, but

738
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.360
it's not. I would say where we draw the line

739
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.000
for sure is you know, as a white person, I'm

740
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.360
not going to go I'm not going to go teach

741
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.639
people how to smudge. That's not my medicine is shrea.

742
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:29.800
There was medicine that was shared with me, and but

743
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.519
it isn't my medicine to share. So I'm not going

744
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:33.800
to do that. If I go to a client's house.

745
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.920
I won't burn white sage right now. The alternative to

746
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.519
this was, I just did. We did a cleansing last

747
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:46.159
year on what is now a vineyard, and the vineyard

748
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.599
is on land that is traditionally homed Native people and

749
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:54.239
tribes that were pushed out. So in that process, we

750
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:55.960
absolutely burned a whole bunch of white sage, but it

751
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:57.679
was as an offering and not as a cleansing, and like,

752
00:37:57.800 --> 00:37:59.159
you know, in that way, it was just honor that

753
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:01.760
culture and that place and the cleansing work that we

754
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:03.880
were trying to do. So you know, you got to

755
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.800
be smart about it. You got to be mature about it.

756
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.079
You got to think of if if you're really upset,

757
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:11.320
if you're really worried about it, right then think about

758
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.679
it from that perspective of if this was my culture,

759
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.039
what I feel respected, and if the answer is no,

760
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.320
I don't do it.

761
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.159
It's a careful line to navigate between appreciation and appropriation.

762
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.800
And I mean appropriation obviously is I'm going to use

763
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.199
white stage and also dress up with war paint and like,

764
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:31.960
like if you are like absolutely just trying to like

765
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.400
and just complete insensitivity to it, if you are doing

766
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:39.239
it as if you are, well, I'm just as good

767
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:43.119
as the people who are doing this. If my recommendation

768
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.199
for people is one read up on it, do some research,

769
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:50.039
like learn about the roots of this practice and how

770
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:55.559
to do it right, and if it still speaks to you,

771
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:01.000
do your best to be as like sensitive and honored

772
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:04.480
as much as possible. And also especially with like smoke

773
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.920
smoke cleansing, it's not just a white sage thing. Europeans

774
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.039
used rosemary and a bunch of other things. Like the

775
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:14.239
lighting up of a thing and using smoke from it

776
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:18.039
to cleanse things is not one culture or another. And

777
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:22.239
if you are hesitant to use white sage and you

778
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.760
feel on some level beholden to only speak to your

779
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:32.119
own roots, what are those roots? It's a fascinating deep

780
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.159
dive to figure out, like what were the practices that

781
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:40.320
God erased from my Irish and my French and my

782
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:45.960
Acadian ancestors and the random little Eastern European branch that's

783
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.639
over there, Like what did they do? And what plants

784
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:55.800
are immediately in my area that have those associations that

785
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.000
I'm not stealing from anybody.

786
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.360
Well, and to that point, I think you said something

787
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:03.840
really important. I want to reinforce, which is this idea

788
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:06.480
that just because you're lighting it doesn't mean it's smudging,

789
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:09.079
and that somebody has been really we we use that

790
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.559
term smudge in a very appropriative way.

791
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:13.400
That's the problem.

792
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:15.920
And so that really is like like smudging is a

793
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:18.679
very specific ceremony, and buttons.

794
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:23.760
Is not the determine we often van around is like fumigation, right,

795
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.679
So fumigation rituals and those things have been those time immemorial,

796
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:29.840
people in a burning crap to get rid of crap, Like,

797
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.280
let's just how it goes. So there are so many

798
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.239
options with that. And if you're you know, if you're Christian,

799
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:37.440
I always tell people to look at your you have.

800
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.840
You have so much information in that book on how

801
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.760
to take care of some stuff, right, And so there

802
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:45.760
are there's resin blends, like like there are sacred resin

803
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.000
blends in your book that will tell you how to

804
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:49.280
purge things, how to get rid of it.

805
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:54.519
Really it's Brackinson's murds throat in anything.

806
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.360
You know, But there's there's all there's there's so many

807
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:57.960
ways that you can approach this this work and make

808
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.519
it accessible because it's a human thing right from all cultures,

809
00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:05.320
all backgrounds, all places where we've all been struggling with

810
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.559
these things and we all develop ways of feeling with them.

811
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.960
And so you know here in America and it was

812
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:12.800
really like the eighties and the nineties just made us

813
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.679
lazy with smudging and with white stage. And we know

814
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.000
you can go to a headshop and by white stage,

815
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:22.440
and you know it's it's just changed completely from its

816
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:24.760
original route. So I don't I don't at all get

817
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.960
up that when somebody's like, that's not right, I get

818
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:27.400
it right.

819
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:28.760
But there are so.

820
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.000
Many ways to go and cleanse yourself, and there's so

821
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:34.800
many practices that I think regardless of who you are,

822
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:40.360
your spiritual allegiances, you can find techniques that can fit

823
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:42.679
into your own book of right.

824
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:44.400
I think that's the important thing.

825
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:48.280
Yeah, to me, it only becomes harmful when it's appropriate

826
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.079
in the sense that you are presenting yourself as equal

827
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.840
or better than the people you're taking the idea from.

828
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:01.039
Okay, Now, this is a term I've only heard within

829
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:07.400
the past fifteen or so ish years, is transmuting negative energy.

830
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:14.440
So can you explain the concept of transmuting rather than banishing?

831
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:15.840
Yeah?

832
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:19.679
So, uh, if you if you aren't, and I'm Michelle

833
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:21.920
is gonna is. I know you're going to put some

834
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:27.000
some really good whipped cream sugar copping. And but so

835
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.920
energy is energy, right, And we know from physics that

836
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.000
that the graveyard of energy is like heat. Right, even

837
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:34.920
that's not.

838
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:37.159
Right.

839
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.480
So energy is energy. Energy is constantly shifting and moving

840
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.840
and doing all kinds of things. And so when we

841
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.639
perceive something, if you can feel a palpable force and

842
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:48.440
you're interpreting it as energy, you can use that energy.

843
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:51.480
And we've been doing this in witchcrafts and occultism since

844
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.559
the day is long, the idea of like, yo, you

845
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.440
feel cursed, We feel like somebody's throwing you know, magic

846
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.519
at you will collect that energy, transmuting it and make

847
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:01.440
it work for you.

848
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:02.960
Like that's the wickedest.

849
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:04.800
Thing you could ever actually do. When somebody wants you

850
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.480
to fail and you take that energy that that that's

851
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:10.320
nasty crap that they're sending you, and you turn it

852
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:14.199
around to like like push you through and make you successful.

853
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:18.039
Oh, that's so wicked, right. And so energy is something

854
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:21.119
that we are constantly working with and dealing with. Whether

855
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:22.559
you know it or not, you're running.

856
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.000
Into it all the time, whether you know it or not.

857
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.320
And you know, we are tend to be a little

858
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.320
more hands on with it in occultism. But when we're

859
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:33.960
talking about this idea of like everyday transmussion, what can

860
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:37.679
I do? What are the things that are zapping you

861
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:38.880
and like stealing from you?

862
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:39.079
Right?

863
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:40.920
What are the what's the monkey on your back? How

864
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:43.280
can you take the monkey that's been on your back

865
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:46.039
and make it do tricks so it pays the right, Right,

866
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:47.760
And that's the stuff that we've been talking about in

867
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:50.360
occultism for so long. It can boil down to something

868
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.119
as simple as simple as shadow work. Right where you're

869
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.480
you're taking this this you know, your childhood trauma and

870
00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:59.519
you are transmuting it through the process of healing, and

871
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.519
suddenly that trauma has.

872
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.280
The ability to heal other people. Right. That that is

873
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:06.719
an absolute transmutation of that energy to empower you.

874
00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:07.000
Right.

875
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:10.559
So we can take that same principle and apply it

876
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:13.760
to an area or a home where there has been

877
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:17.199
some sort of psychic fracture, right, where there is a

878
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:20.840
residual haunting. Right, And so you can take that residual

879
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:24.199
energy and you can transmute it, right, you can, And

880
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.280
so the difference between just like cleansing it away or

881
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.880
banishing something is to you're saying it's not welcome here,

882
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.440
it's not part of the paradigm. You literally have to

883
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:38.320
kind of rip the carpet from underneath it in order

884
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:38.840
to make it.

885
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.920
Go right, that's what you're doing. But you could also

886
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:46.519
just say, hey, right, this energy that is wild.

887
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:48.960
Right, it has no purpose other it is stuck, this

888
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:51.280
residual haunting. This energy is stuck here and it just

889
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:53.840
plays on repeat over and over and over again. How

890
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:56.119
can I take this energy and unstick it? And then

891
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:57.840
once it's unstuck, what are you going to do with it?

892
00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:58.119
Right?

893
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:01.320
And that's where that transmutation stuff comes into play, and

894
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.440
the idea being that if you are somebody who's up

895
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:06.960
against that's the spiritual world, the psychic world, and you're

896
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.960
interacting with things, you have to develop a system. You

897
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:12.679
have to develop an arsenal, you have to develop a

898
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:16.000
toolkit that allows you to navigate through all of those things.

899
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:19.320
Transmutation allows you to do that. And there's in you know,

900
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:21.519
in the very mild sense again, it's that you know,

901
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.360
I'm going to sit down and meditate and think about

902
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:25.199
the things that have really pissed me off.

903
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:29.079
Today, right, And in a really grand sense, it's working

904
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:33.119
with bigger tools, crystal grids.

905
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.400
Working with a sound, working with the natural ecosystem and

906
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:41.039
the understanding the lay lines, right, and really working with

907
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.760
the bigger system to take the energy that's coming into

908
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.920
your space or coming into your body and making sure

909
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.840
that before it goes through you or gets to you,

910
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.119
it's been filtered, the particles have been removed that are

911
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:55.920
negative or that are going to be toxic for you.

912
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:58.599
And you still have that chemical. So let's add something

913
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:00.960
else to it, or let's fight in this other way

914
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:02.280
so that you can still have that water.

915
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:03.880
Because the world is.

916
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:07.000
Dry, right, and so just because that you're you were

917
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.840
dipping in from a well that might be toxic, doesn't

918
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.679
mean you can't cleanse it doesn't mean you can't repurpose it.

919
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.280
Right, And to that end, you know, using that.

920
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.559
Water as a metaphor, there's water that you're not going

921
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:19.280
to drink, but you're going to use it to water

922
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:20.000
your plants.

923
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:20.519
Right.

924
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.760
And so transmutation allows us to look at energy as

925
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:29.559
a source, as a substance that can be manipulated in

926
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:34.480
ways that are beneficial to us. Regardless of the maliciousness

927
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.199
that might be behind them or the benevolence that might

928
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:37.800
be behind them.

929
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:41.320
There's a couple of directions I can take it. I mean,

930
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:45.039
the simplest one is from a psychological perspective. You may

931
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:49.880
have heard the term reframing. It's used in cognitive behavioral therapy,

932
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.360
and it's like looking at an experience that was a

933
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.360
really unpleasant experience and seeing it from a different perspective

934
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.239
and basically shifting how you relate to it. And that's

935
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.320
one way, and probably the simplest way to transmute energy

936
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:06.079
or attacks for things like bad bodies is shifting how

937
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:10.199
you relate to it. There's a more pop culture one,

938
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.880
so if you're a reverend mother from Dune, the like

939
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:19.039
using sheer willpower to change the waters of Shi Hallu

940
00:47:19.159 --> 00:47:21.119
to the waters of life, like being able to take

941
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:24.079
something into you. Now that there are ways as an

942
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:27.559
energy worker, they are more advanced ways to take something

943
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:33.480
that is horrible and through sheer willpower, through your abilities

944
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:37.039
as an energy worker to it's all still energy to

945
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:43.280
change it because it's still power. And I actually I

946
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:47.199
just taught a class on Sir Isaac Newton, So alchemy

947
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:49.960
is really really big on my mind. And that's where

948
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:53.000
the term like that we're familiar with comes from the

949
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:59.679
transmutation of base metals into let into gold. And we

950
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.159
think of alchemy as a physical thing, but in the fifteenth, sixteenth,

951
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:06.880
and seventeenth centuries, the people who were practicing alchemy also

952
00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:09.679
recognize it as a spiritual path. So when they were

953
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:15.199
talking about these very baroque processes that on one level

954
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:18.519
gave us chemistry, on the other end, they're talking about

955
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:24.679
ways of transmuting and changing and sublimating experiences and energies

956
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:29.519
and refining the self from lead into gold from a

957
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:34.880
spiritual perspective and looking at it like that of taking

958
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:40.159
something that may seem foul or very like base like lead,

959
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:47.039
a hard, heavy, just not valuable thing, and finding ways

960
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:51.199
to shift it to change it. And again, if we're

961
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.440
talking purely as an energy worker, I mean devon, hit

962
00:48:54.519 --> 00:49:00.800
on filtering, pulling it in, eating it. Sin eater is

963
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:04.719
also another literally not how it was, but the way

964
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:09.079
that we now understand sinnating, which is to take someone

965
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:15.760
else's bad things, take them literally, consume them, digest them,

966
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:17.639
and turn them into something new.

967
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:21.559
Side note, actual.

968
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.400
Sin eating was literally paying a beggar off the street

969
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:25.800
to eat all the things that they put the sins

970
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.559
in so the guy who had the funeral would go

971
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.119
to heaven. It's a whole weird thing.

972
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:33.079
It's very weird.

973
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.000
Well, now, so let's just talk a little bit about

974
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:44.440
actually like entities, well any spirits, and especially negative spirits,

975
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.239
because you know a lot of people I guess I

976
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:48.599
can't say a lot, but there are people out there

977
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:51.280
who will try to cleanse an area to get rid

978
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.079
of a negative energy or negative entity, and.

979
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.000
In some cases those entities don't go away.

980
00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.960
They just get angry, and that could be really hard

981
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.000
for people, especially when they don't know anything about the

982
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.440
spiritual realm and you know, understand the whole process of

983
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:09.280
really cleansing. They're just you know, prioratey something online. It's

984
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.079
like let's do this and then oh wait, we're in

985
00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:15.760
a really bad situation. I guess, first of all, can

986
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:18.000
you give some sort of encouragement to those people who

987
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.480
are maybe going through such a thing, And what are

988
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:25.800
some elements that you've learned over the years in such situations,

989
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:27.719
Like if you've met people or if you've been through

990
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:31.280
something yourself, but how did you go about maintaining the

991
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:35.159
process of fighting against that entity and eventually driving it out.

992
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.280
If they can't actually afford to call someone else in

993
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.840
or there's no one that they can reach out to

994
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:41.920
to help them, I'm going to hop.

995
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:43.760
In first on this phone because I've had to do

996
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:45.760
a lot of this. I mean, the first question is

997
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:49.400
was it there first? Does it have more right than

998
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:53.920
you to be there? And so are you fighting against

999
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.480
something that is like part of the land that your

1000
00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:00.199
house is built on, because it's not going anywhere, And

1001
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:03.079
that's where finding a way to work with it, work

1002
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:06.239
around it, finding a different approach than just trying to

1003
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:10.159
like drive it away is in many ways you're only recourse.

1004
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:16.639
Sometimes things seem negative because they're angry or because they're wounded.

1005
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.480
So the first thing is if we're talking an entity,

1006
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:25.000
an actual spirit of some sort, assessing what is this thing?

1007
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:30.039
Is it Grandma and we're just she's just so frustrated

1008
00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:32.280
that we're not hearing her, that she's now throwing things

1009
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:35.119
around just out of sheer frustration, and that seems like

1010
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:39.239
a demon to us. Is it a stain of some

1011
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:43.199
terrible thing that happened that just is soaked into where

1012
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:48.199
your home happens to be? Is it actually the land spirit,

1013
00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:50.960
which frankly, we don't do a very good job of

1014
00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:53.760
keeping like keeping up on them, like like we are

1015
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:57.880
doing horrible things to them kind of daily that we've

1016
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.400
lost an ability to have a healthy relationship ship with

1017
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:04.079
Is it something that's come in that that actually can

1018
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:07.360
be kicked out? So like going through the list and

1019
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:13.119
don't worry about the words that we give these things land, white, ghosts, demon,

1020
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:17.000
whatever like that the actual word is less important. Then

1021
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:21.320
what does how does this thing behave? How does it

1022
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:25.280
react to you? Can you communicate with it? Is it

1023
00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:29.199
open to communication? Can it be reasoned with? Is there

1024
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:32.480
a kind of contract you can achieve with it? Like

1025
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:36.360
can you work something out if you can't drive it away?

1026
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:41.320
So that's more where I start, like how do I

1027
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.840
have a conversation with this? What am I talking to?

1028
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.239
And can it be reasoned with? M?

1029
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.920
Yeah, have you heard the term Chinese room before? By chance?

1030
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:56.199
Anybody else there I have? Okay, if you're a sci

1031
00:52:56.199 --> 00:52:57.920
fi person, you're probably like, yes, I don't know of it.

1032
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.320
Yeah, So for those who don't are unaware, the Chinese

1033
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:06.960
room is a thought experiment in which the basic concept

1034
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.320
is that there could be a computer that you sit

1035
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:13.519
in front of and its job is to take information

1036
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:17.400
that you're sending into it and translated into Chinese what

1037
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:21.440
we decide mand o thing, and that if you as

1038
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.760
it's doing that, it learns and so eventually, over time

1039
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:30.360
this computer will develop just the programming will develop enough

1040
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:33.920
that it could fool anybody else into thinking it was

1041
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:36.559
a person and you were having a conversation with the person.

1042
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:40.119
It's not a person. It has just received information. It

1043
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:42.400
has a program that learns how to kind of give

1044
00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:46.960
you what you want. And it's not sentient. It isn't

1045
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:50.119
conscious in the way that we kind of think of

1046
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:56.079
a live being or be in the paranormal world. The

1047
00:53:56.159 --> 00:54:01.320
thing that I've been really the last decade chewing on

1048
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:04.199
and the thing that I've I've gone through my old

1049
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:06.159
notes from cases and the thing that I've I've been

1050
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:08.599
running into with other cases, and it's along the lines

1051
00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:10.440
of Poulter Dice. But it's this idea of the Chinese

1052
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:15.079
room as a as an entity experience and that we

1053
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:21.039
can create or energy itself can develop its own kind

1054
00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:24.159
of programming right where it's spitting things back out to you.

1055
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:27.480
Which you will perceive as consciousness, so you will perceive

1056
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:28.199
as sentience.

1057
00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:29.559
But it's not right.

1058
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.920
It's it's it's a it's its own kind of thing.

1059
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.400
That's that's there and it exists, and it's it's a

1060
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:37.559
tricky thing. I used to call it like a half

1061
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:39.719
life with my when my clients, they'd be like, Oh,

1062
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:40.519
it's got like a half life.

1063
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:42.079
It's there. It's kind of smart.

1064
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.199
It's not really smart, it's just kind of And a

1065
00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.960
good example of this is if you ever go so

1066
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.440
many of us experiences when you house calls, you go

1067
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:52.360
into a house and you can feel attention kind of

1068
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:54.679
pull in the corner, like the top corner, and in

1069
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:56.480
my head, I used to perceive those as like like

1070
00:54:56.599 --> 00:55:00.800
little bugs kind of crawling up and there were hurting anybody.

1071
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.840
They're just there that they live in the shadow. It's

1072
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.519
whatever it is. I would I could go to the

1073
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:07.760
same place over and over again when I would train people,

1074
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.119
and we'd go back to the same haunts. You know,

1075
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:10.280
you kind of go because you know you're going to

1076
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:13.440
get it at a certain level activity. And over the years,

1077
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:16.840
noticing that those little bugs got bigger and they got

1078
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:19.599
a little smarter and suddenly I could. I remember I

1079
00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:21.960
gave them, I give a joke name called it Joe.

1080
00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:23.960
And I came back a year later and I said, oh,

1081
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:26.039
Joe's here, and it responded with hello.

1082
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:30.280
And was it smart? No, it's I think very much,

1083
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:31.960
just adaptive, right, And so.

1084
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:38.239
There is a lot when we're experiencing this firsthand that

1085
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:39.679
we might want.

1086
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:40.880
To assume.

1087
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.960
An entity is has an intention that may not be there,

1088
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:49.400
or it may be smarter or more direct than it

1089
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.400
actually truly is. And in the world the Poulter guys,

1090
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.719
the kind of the big haha, gotcha is that you know,

1091
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:58.800
as psychic agents were creating, and we're creating a psychic

1092
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:03.159
phenomenon that is usually caused through anxiety or stress or

1093
00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:06.000
things that aren't being relieved right, pressure building up, And

1094
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:09.760
this same thing can happen with that Chinese room energy experience.

1095
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:12.760
So it's a tricky thing for people, and I think

1096
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:16.559
it's really important that we I talked about.

1097
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:16.800
This in the book.

1098
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.280
The first thing is you're always in control. So the

1099
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.000
minute you feel like you're losing control, stop and remind

1100
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.519
yourself you you're in control. I have little affirmations and things,

1101
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:26.239
and those are there for a reason. They're there to

1102
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:28.800
help get you back into the headspace that you need

1103
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:31.760
to be in order to really approach whatever is going on.

1104
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:34.280
And so, you know, you want to get your power

1105
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:36.480
back in these situations which you really want to make

1106
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:40.119
sure that you're aware you it can't hurt you if

1107
00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.559
you don't give it us a footing to do that.

1108
00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:43.320
And this was.

1109
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.639
This took a long time and a lot of cases

1110
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.639
and a lot of me going in like a dumb

1111
00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:52.039
you know ass and doing dumb things and learning, oh no, this.

1112
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:53.480
Isn't how we fix this problem.

1113
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:55.840
It's not good work, right, And so going in and

1114
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:58.679
realizing that this doesn't have power to begin with, the

1115
00:56:58.719 --> 00:56:59.840
whole thing is an illusion.

1116
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.719
It's all in your head. So the minute you believe.

1117
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:07.320
Oh shit, there's a ghost, you just created this foothold

1118
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.000
for this thing to come in and go. But if

1119
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:11.280
you're as you know, Michelle, we got to go in.

1120
00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:12.840
Sometimes you gotta fake it. Sometimes you gonna be like

1121
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.159
h ah, you just out and do all the things

1122
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:17.199
you have to present a certain way. So there is

1123
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:19.639
no foothold that can be taken right, And so it's

1124
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:22.800
a it's all in your head. And and it's that's

1125
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:24.760
not a bad thing. Your head is how you perceive things.

1126
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:27.280
It's okay, right, But keep in mind that it's coming

1127
00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:29.960
through your filters. It's coming through in your filters are

1128
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:33.320
developed from your background, your propensities, your pet peeves.

1129
00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:33.599
Right.

1130
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:36.719
So that's why we can watch, you know, these ghost

1131
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.800
hunting shows and you get the one show where it's

1132
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:43.280
always a demon. It's always a demon, right, And why

1133
00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:46.800
is it always a demon? Well, to that person, that's

1134
00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:49.159
what the language is. That's how they perceive things.

1135
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.719
So what I reference it as a people is just

1136
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:54.360
a mirror. Yeah, that's the thank you.

1137
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:56.440
I like that one too, And that's it, right, And

1138
00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:59.079
so you got that little bit too, right. So I

1139
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:02.559
think it's really important that the first thing when these

1140
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:06.480
when things start developing, is that you really ground and

1141
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.960
center yourself in that moment and you take the reins back, right,

1142
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.159
even if you've just got to fake it, right, but

1143
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:13.719
you take the rains back because if.

1144
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:16.159
It is a big, ugly boogly, then.

1145
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:21.239
You can't afford in the long term, especially to play

1146
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.719
with it and to play around with yourself in this situation.

1147
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.800
But if if you're in a place where it isn't

1148
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.480
a big, ugly boogly then you will you could potentially

1149
00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:34.639
exhaust a lot of energy that could even train things

1150
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:36.199
later on down the road. I don't want to put

1151
00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:38.320
that intos another fear for people to have here. But

1152
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:41.440
if we're looking at some of those bigger things that

1153
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:45.480
happen again, a lot of these situations avalanche, they snowball

1154
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:49.960
into these bigger problems. And if we take the minutia out,

1155
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:52.440
you know, so much of it really boils down to

1156
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:53.960
what did how did you respond?

1157
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:54.400
Right?

1158
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:56.719
Because if it's not a tiger, it's not like you

1159
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:59.360
literally have to run away from the tiger ipe at you, Right,

1160
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:03.760
it's the perception of a tiger. Well is it the

1161
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:06.239
shadow of Are you seeing the shadow of a little

1162
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.800
kitten that's just being projected to look like a tiger?

1163
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:09.079
Right?

1164
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.360
Because oftentimes that's the natural response. We know this from nature, right,

1165
00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.960
We know this that this happens. This is how things

1166
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:18.599
camouflage themselves, This is happening. So if we're seeing all

1167
00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:21.400
these patterns happen in nature, why on earth would we

1168
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.719
not assume the same is happening in the spiritual side,

1169
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:27.559
right in the paranormal There what I for the preternatural,

1170
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:29.719
it's my favorite word for it. But why wouldn't we

1171
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:32.239
assume those things? So I think, you know, yes, there

1172
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:34.800
are real dangers out there, but so much of what

1173
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:40.119
the intensity of that danger and the actual realization of

1174
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:44.440
that danger happens in the translation and the personal translation,

1175
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:49.119
the personal kind of relationship that you develop with that thing.

1176
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:53.079
So if you go into these situations automatically assuming that

1177
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:57.280
it's gonna people will walk past a homeless person and

1178
00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:59.800
go no because they don't want to give that homeless

1179
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.559
person a dollar. But they will walk into a house

1180
01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:07.239
that's supposedly haunted and they're like, oh, right now, right.

1181
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:09.760
What are you doing? Right? You are you're meaner to

1182
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.599
the homeless living person, then you are the spirit and

1183
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:16.280
then you're wondering why you get attachments. Right, And so

1184
01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:18.239
if you go into it with the same thing of no,

1185
01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:21.000
this thing wants something from me, then you're gonna have

1186
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.639
a totally different relationship. You don't be a dick about it, right,

1187
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:24.800
you don't have to be mean about.

1188
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:26.440
It, but you can go into it realizing, Okay, this

1189
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.320
this thing wants something from me, even if it's just

1190
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:31.760
a little taste of your power, right or of your

1191
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:35.960
psychic energy or whatever right it wants something. And what

1192
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:38.960
I have witnessed personally in my own life and in

1193
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.559
the life of my clients is that oftentimes once you

1194
01:00:41.639 --> 01:00:44.159
start that thing, when you're nursing it, it's going to

1195
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:48.400
continue to manipulate and twist and to get that nutrients

1196
01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:50.440
from you. And so that's when we're talking about it

1197
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.679
builds into these things that it just doesn't have to

1198
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:58.719
be calm, and yet we're often kind of providing the

1199
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.800
pathway for it without knowing it, right.

1200
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:05.079
Right, Yeah, Yeah, energy is programmable and imprintable. Often with emotion,

1201
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:10.400
energy needs an energy to perpetuate itself. There absolutely are

1202
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:13.920
sentient things out there, but a lot of what people

1203
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:18.519
are encountering are sort of echoes that they're sort of

1204
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:23.320
putting into the world, mirror reflections, things like that. And yeah, like,

1205
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:26.639
if you do think it is a sentient thing, the

1206
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:28.519
first thing to do is to try and understand it

1207
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:32.880
and communicate with it. Like even if you think it's

1208
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:35.599
big and bad, because it's not going to get any

1209
01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.519
worse if you try to have an open dialogue as

1210
01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:41.719
long as you're holding good emotional boundaries.

1211
01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:44.280
And you know, to that end, too, Michelle, I will

1212
01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:47.360
say that, you know, as much as they say like, oh,

1213
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:49.440
this is a human experience, we're having a human experience,

1214
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.079
they're having a human experience too.

1215
01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:52.519
And I think that when it's in the.

1216
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.920
Case where you are having these these entities, these things,

1217
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:58.280
especially if you know if you can identify them as

1218
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:02.639
being human or originating from humanity, reminding them that they're

1219
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.599
human will often deflate a lot of that stuff going

1220
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:09.119
on around the other So many of.

1221
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:11.599
Like the really bad experiences I've seen people have are

1222
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:13.760
because something wanted to communicate with them and was just

1223
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:17.599
getting more and more and more frustrated or was coming

1224
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:20.840
to it was so much emotion that all the person

1225
01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:23.960
felt was the emotion was, was the yelling was, was

1226
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.480
that it was overwhelming, and so they got scared and

1227
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:30.239
it just made it worse and worse and worse. So,

1228
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:34.519
like the first step is assess and trying to figure

1229
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:37.480
out like, is this actually dangerous? Is this actually as

1230
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:41.440
bad as I am interpreting it? And what can I

1231
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:45.519
do to de escalate and try to solve it? And

1232
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:48.880
way better than trying to kick something out is trying

1233
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:52.400
to get something to agree to where the boundaries should.

1234
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:55.800
Be yeah, yeah, And in the book, I created a

1235
01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:57.760
system based off I took all the notes of sat

1236
01:02:57.800 --> 01:02:59.199
down and was like, how did how did I work

1237
01:02:59.239 --> 01:02:59.480
this out?

1238
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.400
If I'm actually working with a client, and so I

1239
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:02.199
have this little system.

1240
01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:04.480
It's a scale, and so it'll tell you like, okay,

1241
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:07.159
if this is the activity you have, these are the

1242
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:10.199
things you have to do. And it's cumulative, by the way,

1243
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:11.679
so as you go up, you have to do everything

1244
01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:14.440
level one in order to complete level two. Right, but

1245
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:18.559
if you do that, it should take care of stuff,

1246
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:20.960
like and it legitimately should take it. If you're really

1247
01:03:21.079 --> 01:03:23.159
investing the time to take care and you're doing these steps,

1248
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:25.480
it should take care of stuff. And if it doesn't

1249
01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:28.119
take care of stuff, then there's information on what to

1250
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:31.800
do next. Right, But nine percent of the problems that

1251
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:33.800
we run into you really can be taken care of

1252
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.280
with what I talk about in the book, with even

1253
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.679
the extreme cases in mind, so that I tried very

1254
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:41.800
hard to think about it. But because not everybody can

1255
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:44.239
right get to somebody like me or Michelle and hire

1256
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:45.800
us to come in and you know all the things,

1257
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:47.000
that's what the book is for.

1258
01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:51.239
There's there's one situation that I'd encountered multiple times where

1259
01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:55.719
stuff will always come back. And that's if on some level,

1260
01:03:56.079 --> 01:03:59.360
you the person experiencing it, enjoy the attention.

1261
01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.480
Boom boom, Yeah, like.

1262
01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:06.039
There's there's something you're getting out of it, Like you're

1263
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:08.599
actually like but like you're invested in your fear. You're

1264
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:13.159
like like and and that takes some really deep level

1265
01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:18.440
self assessment and honesty to be like, oh, well, maybe

1266
01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:21.119
I am not to say that you're asking for it,

1267
01:04:21.159 --> 01:04:24.519
but that like you've now gotten so used to the

1268
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:28.920
chaos and the drama and the attention that you're you're

1269
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:30.000
feeding it.

1270
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:30.960
It's you're conditioned.

1271
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:35.360
Yeah, you've you've you've you've gotten bought into it, and

1272
01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:37.960
maybe you got manipulated into that buy in. But like

1273
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:43.119
you have to detach emotionally from the experience. Don't give

1274
01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:46.119
it feared, don't give it attention, don't just starve it.

1275
01:04:46.519 --> 01:04:48.760
Treat it like the worst narcissist you've ever met in

1276
01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:49.159
your life.

1277
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:50.320
Right, no attention.

1278
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:54.840
Yeah, And it took me some time to learn that

1279
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:56.840
because I can humbly admit that I was one of

1280
01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:01.639
those who after going through a three month oppression and

1281
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:05.119
truly is demonic oppression, these entities would show up in

1282
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:08.079
my bedroom at night, or get night ars, nightmares, all

1283
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:10.960
these different things, and I was in a really low place,

1284
01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:13.960
and once I finally got rid of it, there came

1285
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.960
a time where I did miss it because life kind

1286
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.280
of became boring all of a sudden. I'm like, man,

1287
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.559
I wish that this was still happening. It was kind

1288
01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:24.320
of an exciting thing, you know, and it eventually did

1289
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:28.159
come back multiple times, and you know, it took, Yeah,

1290
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.000
it took a long time for me to realize, Wait

1291
01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:35.239
a minute, I am definitely emotionally energizing this thing and

1292
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:39.079
calling it to me, you know, through the spiritual realm

1293
01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.400
in some way, you know. And I had to find

1294
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:44.599
out what that was and why and then just cut

1295
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:44.960
it out.

1296
01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:45.360
You know.

1297
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:49.119
It was a wild how easy it could be too.

1298
01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:52.039
Yeah, in a lot of ways, that's to me kind

1299
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:56.480
of like what's gotten mythologized into inviting something in mm hmm.

1300
01:05:57.239 --> 01:05:59.000
It's not so much that like you know, oh, you

1301
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:01.000
opened a tarot deck and you have invited it into

1302
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:06.400
your life, Like there's just something going on where this

1303
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:10.480
is now interesting, Like this is feeding into your sense

1304
01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:13.719
of being a victim or the sense that you're depressed

1305
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.679
and everything should be terrible or like whatever you have

1306
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:21.199
to unpack to solve, which again is why I say like,

1307
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:26.519
even though there is legitimate paranormal stuff happening, there's always

1308
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:29.679
going to be a psychological angle that needs to be addressed.

1309
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.320
And that's why if I actually end up working with

1310
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:36.360
somebody on a house call, the deal that I make

1311
01:06:36.440 --> 01:06:38.360
with them because now we sign contracts and stuff, because

1312
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:39.719
I've been doing this for a minute and I know

1313
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:41.199
about it, Mark, But.

1314
01:06:41.119 --> 01:06:43.000
The deal is you have to go to a therapist

1315
01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:43.440
three times.

1316
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.400
You have three meetings with a therapist, and it doesn't

1317
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:49.719
matter if you you know it resolved and talk about

1318
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:52.199
the issue there, I don't care. But the idea is

1319
01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:54.239
that if we're really going to cleanse your house, then

1320
01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:56.159
we're really going to take care of this entiteam, We're

1321
01:06:56.199 --> 01:06:58.199
really going to take care of these things you need

1322
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:00.960
to address psychologically. What what ever is going on that

1323
01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:03.960
helped create that, and that isn't going to happen for

1324
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:05.800
a lot of people without a little bit of guidance

1325
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:08.239
or a little bit of support. And so if I'm

1326
01:07:08.239 --> 01:07:09.400
gonna you know, if I'm going to come into a

1327
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:11.760
house call, for you. You sign a contract that says

1328
01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:14.719
you will go and see a therapist, and it doesn't

1329
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:16.039
matter if they're into what I do or not.

1330
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.559
I don't care. This isn't about me. This is about you, right.

1331
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:21.000
I hope that they tell you it's all insane, insanity

1332
01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:22.480
and that you.

1333
01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:24.800
Were just talking about the traumatiz like like the way

1334
01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.679
that experience affected you, because that's something you're gonna need.

1335
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.320
To talk about, right and so and that's my that's

1336
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:32.519
that's it, right. So you have to have both.

1337
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:35.519
You have to have you have to approach everything holistically

1338
01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:37.119
if you really want results.

1339
01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:40.280
Hope, but you just get us an FCC thing.

1340
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:42.960
Okay, that's what editing is for.

1341
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:47.559
I may have dropped an F bomb along with chip

1342
01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:51.119
coffee on a on a radio show, Saddle it's comfortable

1343
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:59.079
and we just yeah.

1344
01:07:55.880 --> 01:07:58.960
No worries, no worries at all. All right, Well, it

1345
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:01.000
is time to let you guys go. I know we've

1346
01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:03.599
barely touched the tip of the iceberg when it comes

1347
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:07.679
to bad vibes, but that's all the more reason for

1348
01:08:07.719 --> 01:08:10.480
people to go grab the book. So I want to

1349
01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:12.960
give the mic to you guys to tell everybody where

1350
01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:14.360
they can find you find your work.

1351
01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:17.039
It's all yours.

1352
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:21.000
Plight for each other. You can find me if you want.

1353
01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:23.800
I teach classes almost all online now find me at

1354
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:28.439
patreon dot com. Slash haunted is probably the easiest thing

1355
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:30.520
if you want to get access to my classes. My

1356
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:33.720
website is Michelle Belge dot com. Harder to spell than

1357
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:35.439
patreon dot com slash haunted.

1358
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:39.640
Yeah.

1359
01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:41.760
So, and then for me, I mean, honestly, everything's over

1360
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:44.399
at modern witch dot com. And so it just modernwitch

1361
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:47.960
dot com all the information, my podcasts. I've got over

1362
01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:50.720
ten years of podcasts that are on there. We've got

1363
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:52.800
a little bit of a network going on with other people.

1364
01:08:53.439 --> 01:08:55.760
So if you like, if you really want to just

1365
01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:58.239
talk about the psychic stuff, there's a great show on

1366
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:01.840
our network called Circles Podcast and it's with my husband,

1367
01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:03.880
Matt arn and then Rachel True from.

1368
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:06.840
The Craft Ward winning award winning Yeah, it's a word

1369
01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:07.199
winning now.

1370
01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:11.199
Yeah, And so you know, we've got we're very dedicated

1371
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.800
on our side to providing for the community and for

1372
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:18.720
people who are confused or just need a little bit

1373
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:21.159
of help so they can keep going and doing their

1374
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:23.199
you know, living their best lives. Right, So we put

1375
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:25.119
all that over on modern Witch dot com. And then

1376
01:09:25.159 --> 01:09:26.720
if you want more about me and you want to

1377
01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:28.920
see what I do, then I'm on Facebook and insta

1378
01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:30.920
at mister Devin Hunter.

1379
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:35.720
So yeah, I'm social media seth Anachem. I make everything

1380
01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:38.119
hard to spell, I think, uh, but mostly I'm just

1381
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:40.279
over on Blue Sky these days because everything else is

1382
01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:41.520
just a lot.

1383
01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:45.720
That's fair, It's a lot. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah.

1384
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:49.560
I feel we've gotten too much into a lot of

1385
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:52.600
the social media is, but it is a necessary demon

1386
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:56.159
to be a part of stuff.

1387
01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:58.680
So I just want to.

1388
01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:00.560
Thank you guys for coming on. I'm gonna put you

1389
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:03.239
in limbo for just a second and then we'll close

1390
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:06.079
out and we'll let you know what's going on for that. Hi.

1391
01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:12.399
All right, folks, check out the Bad Vibes Field Guide.

1392
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:16.199
It's an amazing book. Like I said, we didn't even

1393
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:20.560
get to touch the tip of the iceberg. So make

1394
01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:22.960
sure you like, share, subscribe no matter where you're listening.

1395
01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:25.119
This has been a pre record show on one of

1396
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:28.680
seven plus seven FM New Orleans and United Public Radio Network.

1397
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:32.000
Make sure you're checking out all the great shows that

1398
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:36.640
we have on here and uh yeah until next week,

1399
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:40.159
where you'll find US, same time, same channel.

1400
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:42.680
My name is Justin and I'm Eric Peace