Whispers In Porcelain: Inside Fiona Dodwell's Cursed Doll Cases

0:03 Welcome, we go, well do para truth Truth? How's it going Paratruthers Welcome to a brand new episode of Paratruth Reborn. My name is Justin. Some toys are meant to be cuddled, but others cry. Us Presidency can't explain. Dolls that whisper stare and even move on their own have terrified families for generations. So today we're talking to Fiona Dodwell about her book A Curse Collection of Hanta Dolls to help guide us through on how to handle these toys. Fiona is a freelance journalist and author who has been fascinated with the paranormal since childhood. She studied theology, applied paranormal research, demonology, and exorcism, and has a particular fascination with haunted objects. Fiona, Welcome to Paratruth Reborn.

1:24 Thanks for having me on. So a lot of people would ask why haunted or cursed dolls. It's just something that really gripped me. I guess it could go way back when you look at the Annabelle case in the seventies, that's obviously the first big case that gripped everyone. So I always had that story in my mind, and it was something that unsettled me. And then it was in twenty fifteen when Peggy the Doll made headlines across the mainstream media, when people began reporting feeling ill when they saw even just pictures Beggy. So it was around that time, sort of twenty fifteen, where I kind of dive into the subject and it's kind of like gripped me ever since really, and I just spent a lot of time reading, learning, studying, and interviewing people who have experiences with it, and it's just been a really fascinating journey for me.

2:22 So what means you want to write the book about it? I wanted to put something together that was a comprehensive guide to the subject because what I know that there's a whole wealth of material out there for general paranormal things like haunted houses, poltergeis, stemonic possession. I thought the whole subject and idea of a haunted object, whether it's a doll or an antique or a piece of jewelry, I thought that that wasn't really an aspect of the paranorm that had been studied quite so much. There wasn't so much out there. So once I knew how interesting, that's fascinating that I found it. I just then decide did I wanted to kind of collect everything that I've been learning and one sort of the book so that other people would have have a chance to read what I'd found, and then it's up to them to make their judgment really about how they feel about it or where they lean forwards believing.

3:17 Okay, now, how do you define a cursed or haunt a doll compared to just one that has like a spooky backstory. Yeah, I mean that's that's the big question really, because I think I think Hollywood or films, like the whole theme in horror in general, has given us this idea of a freaky doll that you know, it can walk and it can talk, and it's it's very dramatic, and it almost kind of in a sense, makes a caricature of the subject. And so I think people are really what the reality could actually be like. And I think you have to be careful as well, because you will find people online that probably take advantage a little bit or here's a spooky doll, and these are the creepy things that have happened, and you know, you have to tread carefully. But I think the main way you can differentiate between a real haunted object or a haunted doll against one that isn't is time and experience. So somebody can give you a background and a history and plant those ideas in your heads, but I think the best way you can verify that is your own time and your own experience. Much like you would with visiting a haunted property. You can hear all the legends around it that surround that place, but until you've found that experience yourself to kind of validate or perhaps refute, even then

4:47 it's hard to make that distinction. So I think it's a case of knowing what you're looking for and knowing what you're likely to experience with a haunted object and looking for that your self. If you come into contact with an object you think could be haunted, it's kind of working through that and seeing what you're finding with your own experience and senses. Now, I mean, this is a fascinating subject for me just because of you know, I followed the Warren's career as as an adult, so it's interesting to you know, see the movies, read their books and stuff like that, and then you know kind of learn some of the truth behind the cases, because both books and the movies were a little dramatized a little bit. But what is your vedding process before you start looking at a case and interviewing people about whatever they're saying is haunted.

5:48 I think it's case for individual. So I spoke to some notable people, like from Within the Parallel you had hands on experience, and I knew that they'd had quite significant encounters. It's people like Jane Harris, for example, from Help My House Is Haunted. I interviewed her and spoke to her about Peggy the Doll. And you may be familiar with Harold the Doll as well. He once made an appearance on Ghost Adventures and his owner, Anthony Quinata, released a book on him and that. You know, these people had such a rich and varied significant experiences that I kind of wanted to pick their brains on it and get their experiences and their insight into what it was like, and also their insight and advice on what to look out for. That every case is different, so it was more a case of me reaching out. You know, I'm across things on this person has had this experience, all this person an object that's done, this, this, and this.

6:58 So my main name with the book was to reach out speak to these people, kind of collate the information, write down their experiences are why they believe the object is wanted, and kind of indense that into the book and then let the reader decide really how they feel about that, because I can't obviously writing an account, I can't prove to people, much like anything in the paranormal. All you can do, I think is your best by presenting what there is and letting people make up their own minds. So that's my viewpoint when I was putting the book together. Okay, now, are there any pieces of evidence, physical or behroal evidence that has been more compelling than others or even misread.

7:51 I think one thing that I've found particularly compelling was with and I know it's a case that some of your listeners will probably be familiar with. It's one of the famous cases, Robert the Doll. Obviously there's been a lot of writing about him, articles and even a series of films about Robert. And obviously the background is that a maid had given the doll to a child of a family, and that the child became convinced that the doll was communicating with him, and the doll would move, and that some negative things were not necessarily negative, but some paranormal activity was the only surrounding the household after being given the doll. And I think one thing I found quite compelling about this case is that, you know, we often read about cases that historical and we can go back and see what people have experienced in the past, Like with Annabelle, you hear these things and it's all secondhand information. But with Robert the doll, one thing that's particularly interesting is that they when people visit the doll in the museum, it's not uncommon for people to come away and feel like they've been affected, that they have some kind of bad luck or negative energy surrounding them after seeing him, and to the point in the museum have actually said themselves, we're receiving may or quite regularly visitors saying, you know, with sorry if we did anything to bring this on to you know, with sorry, if we did anything to disrespect, but we apologize, and we just want to try and cut that connection. And that's

9:22 not actually an uncommon thing, and so that was an interesting thing. I thought that was quite insightful because you know it's an old case, but it seems to be having reverberations even now in sort of twenty twenty five, so that that was one that stood out to me quite a bit. Now something that I've questioned quite a bit, and maybe people have done this or not, but have you ever come across people telling why they didn't, like, just destroy the dollar get rid of it'. Well I come across that question if he finds during my research of the subject. And I think one of the reasons, or one of the most significant reasons, is that people but because a spirit or an energy, whether it's something positive or demonic, I think people frightened that it's not necessarily contained to that object. I think there's a worry there, much the same as perhaps with wigi boards, where there's a bit of a superstitious belief. Perhaps if I destroy this item or if I burn it, is that actually going to make things worse? Is it going to unleash something further? Is it going to anger the spirit?

10:37 So I think it's it's the attitude of not really knowing whether that would make something worse or not that perhaps makes people fear just going straight into action and damaging the item. Or throwing it out because it's it's it's new territory. We don't really know just because an item has an energy attached to whether that energy actually needs to remain with that item or not. So it essentially might not even fix anything. So I think there's just that nervousness about what to do next. So I think most people, at least of what I've read about a more comfortable speaking to somebody who has experience of dealing with objects like that, you know, like a psychic or a medium or even a priest for blessings something like that. They call on outside help more often.

11:30 Have you ever come across anybody that kind of has an idea why these attachments happen? Yeah, I mean it's I had a set of questions in my mind that I wanted to find answers to, and you know, it includes things like how does a doll become haunted? Why would an object have something attached to it? So I kind of during my I did speak to a lot of people, you know, I did do a lot of reading, and I think there are a few theories. Really, the most common theories about how an object would be haunted is that, particularly with a doll.

12:15 There could be an energy that sees a doll and wants to tether itself to something that it sees as recognizably human. So, you know, it makes sense. I suppose if there is an ability of spirit too inhabit an object, it would seem likely they would want to be part of something that looks human, that has the facial features that might even resemble how they looked in life. There's another theory that suggests that perhaps that item itself was something that somebody owned and just loved, and so it absorbed some of that energy, almost like the stone tape theory. This idea that loved and kept for years just might absorb some of that energy from a person. And then you can go down the other route. You know, was the doll used in ritualistic purposes? You know, was a curse used with that item, in which case it's not like a traditional haunting. It's more a case of somebody using that doll and putting to it with a direct purpose of causing an effect to somebody. That Those are some of the ideas that I've come across, sort of the most common ones anyway.

13:30 Okay, now, have you ever been able to debunk a doll story, and if you did, what tipped it off? Well, the cases that I used in the book were the ones that the people that I reached out to that I already researched enough to feel like there was some validity to it. So in that sense, in terms of the ones I included in the book, I'd kind of already worked quite thoroughly through who I wanted to include in that's in that situation. But just to touch upon that subject a little bit, it's not always a dishonest thing. When people they are a haunted or cursed item take it off my hands. You know, I'd believe that some people just might genuinely be that, or might have a series of events they attribute to an might be a fake. So, for example, one thing question reminds me of is that during writing the book, someone reached out to me and they said, look, since I've found the doll in an attic, they were clearing out some face in their attic and they found this this doll, and they said, look, nothing but bad luck has happened to me since finding this doll. It's really unnerving me.

14:50 You know, I don't want a lot of money or anything just you know, I'd be more than happy for you to take it off me. So maybe I was just completely stupid, but I said, okay, then you know, send it my way and you know, be interesting to see if anything happens. So I was, you know, quite nervous because I thought, you know, I'm inviting this thing in and that I might experience something similar, something negative. But I spent a lot of time once the doll arrived sort of doing my own investigation and trying to sort of explore whether there was any energy. And it's been sort of several months into it now and there's not been a single thing or experience that I can put down to that doll. But in that case, you know, I'd like to say it's I don't believe that person was trying to be decided. They seemed genuinely frightened that some bad luck that had happened to them was because of the doll, and they just wanted the doll gone and they felt like by sending it to me that it had become my problem. But not one thing has happened since, so you have to ask that question, then, was there something going on with that particular person rather than the object, and you know, much to my relief, I haven't been with lux owning it, but it's made a nice dole for my collection.

16:04 Anyway, now from that person, have you heard anything from them since like that they're still having that type of situation or that activity has increased since the doll left. That's an interesting question. Funny enough, I haven't, I think because things have been so busy promotion and when I was writing the book everything that it was in the back of my head to do that I wanted to find out and I haven't yet. Hoping to send a message over and just has banks. It would be interesting to hear if things continued for them or whether it completely stopped when the dolls one way or the other.

16:46 It would be good to know. So I haven't yet, but I planned it to find out. Okay, Now, there's so many questions that come to mind, But have you ever have you come across any cases where you can tell what triggered the activity or what woke up the doll. That's quite a hard one to answer, because honestly, from a lot of the cases I have read, it seems to be this a series of really but you know, I mean, I'm somebody. Because I've spent a lot of time reading and researching. I do believe that this can happen, and I do believe that dolls or objects can be spirited or haunted. But for the most part, I think most people when they experience this, it's through a completely unsuspecting encounter. They've gone out to a shot, perhaps I've been to an antique fare, or they've just bought a vintage item on eBay, and it's quite a random thing that just kickstarts that that series of events for them.

18:00 I don't think there's often an actual trigger that there might be in the past, you know, something to link it to that might have been lost from previous owners, or the reason that the previous only gave the item away, for example. But that's not something that it's been easy to uncover unfortunately. Yeah, Now, have you ever come across a case that has like solidified in your mind that this is a true phenomena, Like, were you a skeptic at first when you first started looking at these cases? Or I was a believer in hauntings and in spirit because of my own personal experiences, you know, so I leaned towards believing, but I always try to have that kind of centered approach where I go into to the case or the subject and tried to be led by what I'm learning and experiencing. So sort of like a believer, but with healthy a healthy believer, you know, a good dose of skepticism, not just necessarily believing because it's what I've been told or anything. So yeah, I don't just jump to to each case with with that mindset of just thinking, oh this this is really you know, Britain must be true. You know, I'm aware that balance much

19:31 liking anything, but I just really wanted to answer the question. I think for a lot of people, mean if might be going off, but I know some point was to think if a how like a building a hotel, you know, building a lot of land, you know that's just soil and feel the landscape can be which many of us then questions, why can the material a piece of Oh and that's what's journey. Sorry, I think that that that's just something that you know, the big thing anyway, Yeah.

20:22 No, that makes sense. Yeah, Now you mentioned the one doll that somebody had sent to you, But are there any cases where the doll was removed and that resolved the activity? And then what happened next. I know there is where activity after the doll. So obviously there's the famous that we know no one about when eventually evolved removed and a belt and confirmed that it wasn't just the spirit of attached to this, that it was something demonic. They removed that put them in her in their museum, and I think that from all reports and everything that I could gather, that that the activity settled for the owner of them in their home life.

21:28 And then much saying with Peggy the doc there was this doll from and they kept brilliant threaty events and they were attached to the and they put outside blace or an outfield their property, and then Peggy remained there. The owner Vaine Harris, you might recommend, helped my house up wanted overhead in England. She's part of the She was called Terrain and she converned. There was Peggy. And it's quite a forceful one because as I mentioned earlier on in the show, there were people that even just saw pictures or footage of Peggy and were coming in like with their messages saying, oh I felt really ill after seeing her and all this, you know, horrible negative feeling overtook me, and I think, you know, Jane went in and did her thing and removed Peggy, and I think, as far as I know, from all I've been able to learn, that that that activity settled after the removal of Peggy in the home that she was originally in. Now, whether anything has obviously, you know, continued. I think eventually Zach Beagan's took Peggy and she's now in the the Haunted Museum. So obviously Peggy still might be doing her thing in her current location. But I think there's an indication that by removing these items after and the energy

23:00 is moving with them. Okay, now we've mentioned that, you know, pop culture has kind of grabbed this idea and went with it. How much of this is just a fear of a creepy looking doll, because I mean, psychology wise, people will start seeing things, hearing things just because fear is playing a factor. Yeah. Absolutely, And probably Hollywood hasn't helped in that sense either, because Hollywood's really adopted the whole killer doll trope. You know, we have the nineties film Dolly Dearrist that you might have seen the doll, and obviously Child's play with Chucky, and you have Annabelle, like he was made kind of morphed into the horror character as we know her, and so we're kind of opted this fear through through seeing these dolls become something really negative and demonic and dangerous.

24:07 I really think it planted the idea in the public kindness that you know, perhaps there could be something else at play with these items sometimes. So that's certainly been an influence on our attitude about dolls. But I think there's another side to it as well. I think it's the fact that two things really. One is that they are lifelike, and you know, some more than others, but some are incredibly lifelike. You know, sometimes their eyes can really feel like they're looking at you, and that they can be following you. They're facial features. You know, there's something about looking at a human vessel, a human likeness, and having it in your room staring at you, that that can be quite unsettling to people. And secondly, I think it's also the fact that you know, everyone has or has had items like this in their home. You know, our children have dolls like around and our grandchildren, and we collect them, we put them on shelves, in our house.

25:05 And I think it's that as well. It plays on our mind. You know, you see these films and you hear about things like the Annabelle case, and you just know that actually that could have been literally any doll at all. That these things aren't necessarily special, they're just an average doll. But you can never predict when something could be attached or become attached to it. And I think when you're thinking in those terms, it's not like moving into a haunted house. It could literally be a case of popping down shots one day, seeing an item in a at a market or a charity store and picking it up and then suddenly or your whole life and your experience could be turned upside down. So that's quite a frightening concept of people.

25:52 Yeah. Well, and I mean we've talked about this on the show multiple times, but the mind is a powerful thing. So there's the you know, the whole idea of creating an entity just by thinking about it, or even if you're thinking that that dot is haunted, that something would attach yourself to it because it knows that you're fearful of it. Yeah. Absolutely, and I think that's where people need to be careful about making that assumption, and I think it come to that conclusion, I think you do need to give some time an attention, research investigation to the item that you're thinking is haunted, to see if actually there is that something to confirm your feelings, or whether this is just a general thing or experience in your right now rather than the item that you're blaming on. So I think it's helpful to have a little kind of checklist of things, you know, making a log of what you're going through, perhaps, you know, asking for help from a respected or medium perhaps, and then going by your own just simple equipment really, you know, you could use a dictaphone, start start doing recordings and seeing if you capture something. EMF meters and I know the opinions divided

27:26 on paranormal apps. I think most people would agree that majority of them can't be trusted. But I think it's about taking each item and each experiment and building a whole picture from what you're experiencing and then thinking, actually, yeah, I can link this, or I can validate that, or this experiment does keep yielding results. So I think it's important to just not rely on the feeling and the instincts even though that can be helpful. I mean, sometimes, you know, you might pick up an object and suddenly get this strong, overpowering feeling. But I think in terms of putting your trust that Okay, I'm ryan, this isn't just because it's a spooky looking doll or because I've seen a scary horror film about dolls or anything like that.

28:11 I think you can take that step further and do your own personal research to think, you know, and uncover if there's something to it or not. Now, what safeguards can somebody take or that you would recommend collectors, both practical and spiritual to kind of protect from something like this. I think if somebody has, you know, an item, brought it into their home and they have a suspicion or a feeling, whatever the cause of that feeling might be, in the early stages, you know, there is certainly no harm in doing some kind of prayer or words of you know, depending on your own spiritual beliefs. Obviously that's an individual thing. But saying a few words of protection, sort of putting that boundary, sort of saying that there will be no harm, that you won't engage with anything negative, doing what you can you might not only set that tone to an energy if it is present, but it might also give you some psychological protection and feeling of control in the situation. And then you know, if you're somebody who can kind of make contact us with, like a medium or a psychic, And again that's a personal choice, but if you're believes and trust in that, if you can find a reputable one, you can always out and ask that person to spend some time with the object.

29:42 Then they can do their own preyer of protection for you, and they can even perhaps do a reading for you and confirm you know, actually there's nothing there or there is. It's a tough one because I think perhaps if there's an energy attached and it's not negative, and it's something quite light and positive, there might not be any need to worry about the protection and the boundary. But you don't burst. And that's why I say it wouldn't do any harm to do that at first. But if you get into the realm we're feeling like, actually what I have is negative or even potentially demonic, then all different things and then that's beyond probably what you feel like you could deal with from your own home, and you might need to call in help. You know, there are people who do blessings on objects. There are people who collect the objects and will willingly take the light and for you and deal with that themselves. Yeah, but blessings and protection from either an outside source or yourself, if you're certainly.

30:48 Okay now, is there anything that you would say for them not to do? I think certainly too. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but not showing fear, I think, and I don't know why. I think it's just something that I've come across a few times when you know, when I've been reading about the paranormal in general and dealing with paranormal objects, it's you know, if you're thinking it's something negative or demonic, I think trying to be strong, keep on told of some strength and not kind of give in to the fear because there is that belief, isn't there that something negative will actually be charged by that or feel emboldened by knowing that they're having that effect on you. And I know that's easier said than done.

31:47 I'm not sure I could do that if I was experiencing something that was terrifying. But I'm just saying it as something that I have heard quite a few times in different places, and then going back to what we discussed earlier, I'm not convinced that just thinking, Okay, I'm gonna put this item in a box in my attic will change anything. I'm not confident that destroying the item will either, because this is not something you don't know how it's linked to the item. You don't know whether it can shift to something else. You don't know whether you're going to anger that spirit. If there is one attached, then they might not take kindly to the vessel they might have been attached to for five, ten fifty years, even being broken or thrown away. So I don't think throwing and destroying it, you know, is helpful. So again I would look to outside help from sources that you trust, reputable people that you feel like you can talk to.

32:55 Has there ever been a case that you've come across that you're very leary about doing investigating with, like just even talking to the people about the doll. I was quite nervous writing about Robert's in well and my publisher Llewellyn, I'm releasing my book with you know takes as seriously as well, and because at one point there was a discussion about using real photographs in my book, and we really you know, thought about that and discussed it, and in the end we decided to have an artist do some illustrations instead, because we thought, perhaps, you know, there is those stories, you know, like Robert not being happy about his photo being taken and the bad luck that was associated with Anna Belle and Peggy. You know, her photograph is supposed to have caused people very strong experience of ill health. They'll we really rethought that, and to that extent, we made that decision to just use some illustrations. So that gives you some kind of indication that we did want to tread care with that. So, yeah, we do have pictures in the book, but not real photos of the doll, because I was aware of that and I didn't want to unwittingly and get you know, draw the attention and anything negative. But I did have

34:29 an experience myself when my book, because I reached out to a guy called Rob and he has a podcast of his own, and he had done an experiment with a doll called Edna. He spent two nights, I think it was in a hotel where it was just going to be him and this doll that was supposed to be haunted. And Rob was a bit, you know, a bit of a skeptic, to be fair, and he didn't think that anything was going to come of it. So he spent a couple of nights hold up in this hotel room, used his a paranormal whipment, his bone and his you know, did various different experiments, and by the end of it, the results were recorded for his show, but you know, were played to his audience. But he ended up feeling like, actually, I've come away feeling there is something to this doll. This doll we called Edna, and he felt uncomfortable about her to the extent that he locked her in the boot of his car when he returned from the hotel, or that he wanted to have anything to do. Because we got talking and he knew that I was writing a book, he said, okay, why don't you, Why don't you have Edna? She can come stay with you. And what started out was me saying, Okay, I'll have her for a couple of weeks just to have some experience to write about in the book, ended up with Edna staying with me permanently, as Rob actually didn't want her back in the end, and I was having some really unnerving experiences myself. And when I say unnerving, I don't mean negative. I don't think the spirit attached to Edna is negative. It's supposed to be the spirit of a child, actually, But I think you can perceive

36:03 something as unsettling just because it is unexpected and unknown. And with Edna, I did several experiments with her, Like I had a touch sensor ball. It's kind of like just a small ball, and it would only light up if you. Push it. So I placed that. I sat Edna on the shelf, and I put the ball on ta her legs and I would sort of ask questions and interact, and all of a sudden, the ball would start lighting up, And so that was really interesting. I filmed that a few times and put it on my social media. But then that became more unsettling when there would be nothing for a long period of time and I would go to bed at night and I'd have Edna on my shelf in my room, and then I'd be woken up at three am because the light was really had set itself off and it hadn't been going you know. I hadn't done no experiments with it, I hadn't been anywhere near it.

36:58 The house was quiet, and all of a sudden this light sense, that touch sense of light going off in the middle of the night. So that in itself felt unsettling. You know, you're being woken up and you're thinking, oh, you know, is that that said set? And then the physical feelings around her, like sometimes really cultivation when holding her, some kind of bigger movement around the house. My husband even saw himself, and he's a non believer. Actually, he's much more skeptic camp than I ever was. And he he was in the house shortly after we got Edna, and he himself said he was sitting there and practicing his guitar, he's a musician, and all of a sudden he saw something kind of flashed by at the corner of his eye, to the extent that he got up and looked around the house thinking, is someone you know that's got in? And so those kinds of experiences you know, kept going and that you know, so that was kind of an unnerving thing for me, but away because it helped me have that insight myself to the experience of a haunted doll. I didn't regret doing it, but it certainly was something that unnerved me and that I didn't expect to experience. But you know, I still own it in and now you know, I'm still standing strong. Nothing bad's happened, and my head doesn't swibble around like horror films.

38:26 Now it sounds like you've taken a few dolls, now, like is there would you draw a line at certain activity or whatever to not take the doll? I think so. I mean I would never knowingly want to have a doll that was associated with I mean, actually that's a liar. Did it once? Didn't I the lady told you about who had bad luck? M No, it was more than her saying she had a series of bad luck. She thinks it's this doll. And you know, I did feel a bit stupid at the time because I thought I could be inviting this into my life and perhaps something's really going to be awful. But I think where I would draw the line is if I met someone to say we believe this item is perhaps demonic or cursed. I think in that area is where I certainly would draw a line. There would be a boundary there for me because it will Number one. To me, it seems like common sense, like I don't want to invite something in my life and in my home life where I have a husband and a child, where something could really feel you know, it could potentially be something that's quite terrifying if it has some really strong negative feelings and emotions and activity around it, I wouldn't want to invite that. And number two, I just don't feel like I would be somebody. As much as I've done is throw myself into this subject and we searched it.

39:50 I know that personally I wouldn't feel equipped to confidently deal with that, and it would just be something that probably would trouble me a lot. So that's the the line I would I would put there, I think certainly not knowingly anyway, and buy anything that could potentially be demonic. Okay, I mean to me that makes sense. I mean, there have been people that take it upon themselves to not necessarily protect these dolls, but keep them contained and keep them away from people. If somebody or wanting to do that, is it something that you would say is safe to do or would you say, you know, definitely do your research before you start doing something like that.

40:48 Yeah, I mean, I think if somebody feels confident, if they have background experience, may feel spiritually and mentally equipped to deal with it, and they want to, then I suppose it's up to that individual to do that. And I know that because of the way that I threw myself into the whole study of this, that I have to come across people that specifically like they seem just really happy, like excited to experience something, and so they seem drawn to kind of inviting like something negative just to experience it. You know. I don't know if that's just sort of maybe the films and the Hollywood version of things kind of intrigues people, or I wonder what will happen if I had a you know, a possessed doll or something. I don't know if it's that, I mean, because that would send me running the other way personally.

41:41 But people are you know, everyone's different, and you know there are people out there say, oh, I would adopt and you know, a negative doll, and you know, so that it might be from a perspective of just wanting to experience that. But then there are also people who know what they're doing, who are very well versed in dealing with these who just want to not necessarily collect them because it's fun to collect, but actually own them. They know what they're doing, and they feel good and confident in knowing how to contain it and to keep themselves safe. So it's almost like helping the people that owned it, that didn't want that object anymore and being able to step in and remove that. So in that case, that's you know, that's really valuable for people who need help.

42:24 M What if anything do you want people to take away from from this book? I think, well, I don't want to freak your listeners out or anything and put them off going to markets and second ham stores and everything. But I think, you know, it is possible in you know, when I say that, through my experience and research, you know, I can't speak for other people, but you know, I've conclusion that it's possible for an object such as a doll to be haunted or spirited or cursed whichever, you know, whichever that happens to be, and that really that could been at any place and at any time. So it's not buying a tic an organized paranormal event, and it's not all visiting the spooky house. That's emptied to have this experience.

43:24 It's this could be something you could bring into your life completely innocently. So I think for people that are open minded to this, or who are believers, you know, you know, who will take this seriously. I think all I would say is, you know, trust your instinct. You know, I mean I personally, I collect anti convintage dolls and nothing would you know, I'm happy to continue doing that. But I think you have to trust your instinct. And if you do get that feeling actually you know, I'm getting some strong vibes off this, then it's going back to what I said earlier. It's just going through that process again. You know, Okay, why do I feel like this?

44:06 Is there another reason? And if you if you are convinced still that it's the item, then my advice would be to go through that list that I mentioned earlier, go through the spending time with the item, keeping a log of events, you know, calling in help from someone that's reputable that might be able to give you some insight, giving you a reading by some equipment. You know, there are so many layers that you can do to kind of come to that validation or perhaps not. You know, it could end up that it's not haunted. But that's what I'd say. I know, it's just that only a haunted object could happen potentially to any I just exactly common.

44:49 But you know, I think it's an interesting idea that this, you know, you could go out one day by an item that just looks cute to you or interesting and then have this really like completely mind altering experience where you know, perhaps your perception of spirits and hauntings might be shifted. So it's an awareness and you know, trust your instinct. Maybe if you're in a shop and you pick something up you like, but you get that strong negative feeling, then maybe listen to that feeling as well. Was there anything that shocked you or surprised you when reading this book?

45:31 It was the amount of cases that were out there, you know, when I was telling you earlier that you know, obviously I had the account of Annabelle was the big trigger, like you know, of these kind of stories two fifteen. It was the the Peggy case that that kind of started my obsession with God Wanted Dolls. But I think if I'm surprised by anything, it's that actually how many cases as there are, probably most of your listen familiar with the big name Robert and Harold Pggy, but it does, you know, you kind of do some you realize, you know, many people the world over have had these experiences with dolls and haunted objects, and that's you know, that's quite eye opening. I think, not as kind of rare as you as you hope for it to be. You know, experiences, they've had this in their life, they've had to deal with it, and it's way far beyond just the two or three names that generally headline the usual sort of paranormal books and articles. You know, it's quite a fascinating thing to realize, actually there's a whole wealth of material out there and experiences.

46:50 Now, has there been a percentage of negative versus non negative experiences that you came across. I'd say it's quite I'd say that, you know, the negative ones often capture the most attention because then that groups people's attention, that kind of that plays on the whole sort of fear thing, and I can understand why. But you know, for the most part, a lot of experiences that I looked into and read about and studied, they weren't necessarily that they were negative. You know, there are cases where people perhaps the item, but it wasn't necessarily negative. It was just because they were having paranormal experiences that they weren't prepared to have. And you know, having an experience of something unsettling that you weren't expecting, that you're not used to, that makes you feel kind of uncomfortable in your own home. You know, those things can be perceived as negative, but it doesn't necessarily mean the energy itself was had any negative at tension. I think a lot of what I've read about was that there was paranormal experiences and encounters, but that they weren't really you know, there wasn't just like a whole wealth of demonic case you know, demonic cases out there goals or really negative spirits. There were, and they make for good reading, you know, that's interesting. But for a lot

48:22 of cases it was it was perfectly positive or calm energy, but active what some people just aren't comfortable with. Mm hmm okay. So doing the research that you have, do a lot of these cases seem more like people that just owned the doll that got really attached to it. Is it more children that are getting attached in them passing away what's your take on that.

49:02 I think I think it's so for every case you know about, like the spirit sells, are the dolls that what you mean? Yeah, yeah, I think you know. Certainly in some cases, you know, it makes sense if you have a like an actual boy such as you know, a kind of a play playful, cute looking toy that was owned by a child, then there's every reason to think that that that child would be have some kind of link or attachment to it. And that's certainly something, but it's not always the case. I think, you know, going back to the reasons why an item will be haunted, it could it could just be that a spirit, like I said, wants to inhabit something that looks human like, so it's not necessary then might have had a link with that item in their lifetime, but they're seeing something that they recognize as human and would rather kind of inhabit that than just something random or not having any physical link to something. I mean, they're also mysterious cases.

50:18 And you know, your question makes me think of a case in Japan. I think it was I could be incorrect with the time. I think it was the early nineteen hundreds and there was a case about a doll called o Kiku. I don't know if you've heard of that case, and that was interesting. These parents had a child, at a young girl, and she had a favorite doll and she was never seen without this doll. She absolutely loved it. It was her favorite toy. And fortunately that the child became very ill and she passed away, and the parents kept the doll in honor of the child, because you know, this is our favorite, our daughter's favorite toy, not eating it, they kept it on a shelf in a kind of next to the picture of their daughter, in a kind of like tribute. Almost after a while that the parents noticed that the doll's hair looked longer, which kind of struck them. They thought that was really odd.

51:17 But then, you know, they just left it and waited a while, and then they checked it again after a period of time and it was longer again. So you know, they asked that question, then, is you know, is our door to's passed up somehow affecting is her energy somehow affecting this or is it something else inexplicable And it's not a question. They could get to the bottom too, you know, but I certainly think it's possible that the child was somehow affecting the item, And as it stands, the parents eventually donated a kicko the doll to a temple where some monks kept hold of it. And apparently, you know, as far as my research takes me, anyway, there were monks that that would do the same thing and kept to check and apparently the doll's hair was still growing and they were able to attest that there was truth to this. So there is that theory. You know, was the child able to manipulate the doll with that kind of energy or was there something completely different that's beyond our current understanding. But it was just a case that stood out in my mind when you mentioned like a child child's energy sort of being around a doll that they loved, you know, possible when it makes sense that that would be the case in quite a few of the accounts that come up.

52:33 Now, is it Robert the doll that looked like he was aging? I know there was one case. I can't remember which one it was. There was a case, Yeah, it might Something tells me it wasn't Robert the doll, but it was a doll that looks similar to Robert and I can't think. I can't think of the name. But there case wasn't there where there was a doll that was found and that people were taking pictures and they noticed physical changes. Yeah, I do know the case you're referring to a minds drawn a blank with the name of that particular dole.

53:14 But you know that reminds me of you know, what you're mentioning there, Like the Japanese. It does make you sometimes if there is an energy that can manipulate the material of that object you know about that that caused degradation. But I'm guessing that because it was so noticeable and it became so infamous about that doll that was aging that that there's something that can quite be explossed with natural things, you know, to think that it could potentially changing.

53:55 Now, have you in all the cases that you've come across, is there a certain uh material that is more haunted than others like porcelain versus rag versus plastic. I don't think so. No. From everything that I've learned, I think it can literally be. I think in a way that makes sense because if a dog can be, any object could be, you know. So, like I mentioned earlier, whether an antique heirloom of the family passed down a rich piece of jew peak items can energy. I don't think it's to that physical material. I think that if dawn something for reason, I don't think expect that object is so, you know, be wanted that I have certainly come up like Raggedy and type well then puppets, So I don't think it's one time from what I've done.

55:07 Okay, all right, Well, we are getting close to the end of the show, so I want to give you the chance to tell everybody where they can find you find the book that that mix all yours. Okay, So the first thing I'd want to say, I'm still about haunted, Haunted that and reach out had an experience fellthy I'd love to hear from from my book is called of What It does be out the twenty fifth September for America over here and out in earlier so and it does continue us with quite reconize from some paradises and also a lot of writing the more unknown.

55:57 I'm hopefully you guys have so you can get a conection for Wanted Doors or then it'll be a very book version and you can look me up. I am on Instagram TikTok look me up being a dogwell author, and I should come up, you know, I'd love to connect with some of you and hear about your own experiences. All right, Fionna, thank you so much for coming on and I will definitely be pushing this book because it's one of those things that it is not talked about as much compared to other things in the paranormal.

56:38 So okay, thanks so much for having mel. All Right, folks, make sure you check out Fiona's book, A Cursed oh Gosh Doll Collection. Sorry about that, A curse collection of haunted dolls. Definitely something that is not rarely or really talked about very often on a lot of shows or whatever, or even done on the TV shows that those curse dolls, haunted dolls are one of those things that is not talked about as much as other things in the paranormal. Something I did want to bring up is we did do a poll before doing the recording of the show, and we asked if a doll moved an inch every night, would you keep it or curb it? And the answers were keep it cleanse it, contain it, curb it. And it was a fifty to fifty break on people that would cleanse it or people that would curb it. Nobody had an answer for keep it or contain it. So that was a really interesting poll and I hope you guys are enjoying all these We hope to have more answers from all of you because it's definitely an engaging conversation. So make sure you're checking out everything that we post. We post them on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram,

58:13 there are a couple others that we're on. Engage with us. Tell us what you guys think, because just because we're bringing this information to you doesn't mean that there aren't other opinions out there. Make sure you like, share, subscribe no matter where you're listening or watching until next week where you'll find us, same time, same channel. My name is Justin. Talk to you guys later.