Poppet Magick & Haunted Dolls: Inside Dollcraft w/Patti Negri

0:03 Welcome. Well go, well do para truth truth? What's going on Paratruthers. I have to say this before I do the introduction. I get so excited every time I hear that, Hey.

0:43 It's still doing this job. Then welcome to Paratruth Reborn. My name is Justin and I'm Eric. Now most people think dolls sit still on a shelf, but what if some of them are watching, waiting. And listening. Tonight we're talking with Patty Degree about poppet magic, haunted dolls, and why some objects feel alive. And she goes over that in her book doll Craft. Patty is a psychic medium, a quote unquote good witch, author, and television personality known for her recurring role on ghost adventures and appearances across the paranormal and entertainment world. She's the author of Old World Magic for the Modern World and Dollcraft, and hosts the podcast The Witching Hour.

1:46 Now, I know you guys are all excited to hear from Patty, but she will actually be joining us in just a little bit. She's running a little behind. But first we want to cover some knowledge, at least some basic knowledge that we have about poppets. Now, the biggest question I think a lot of people tend to have when we're talking to them is what is a poppet? Exactly right? I know I have like, poppet is one of those words that I don't typically think of when I think of doults. But a poppet is basically a small human shaped figure used in folk magic, witchcraft and spell word to represent a person, a situation, or an intention.

2:35 It is not, and I got to be clear, it is not the same thing as the Hollywood quote unquote voodoo doll as some may think. Instead a popit serves as a stand in basically a symbolic link between the physical figure and the person or intention it's connected to. And we've gone over voodoo and voodoo dolls, So if you want to know about more about that, go to that episode. And both Eric and I own a voodoo doll from going to New Orleans, So we have kind of ventured down that rabbit hole time and time again. Actually, now, what are puppets made of? That's the interesting thing. Traditionally the materials correspond to the poppet or the purpose of the spell. You've got fabric, you know, cotton felt linen often handstitched with intent wax, great for shaping and holding energy, but also symbolic of transformation. Herbs stuffed in cloth, lavender, rosemary, mugwort, rose petals. The list goes on and on there for healing, protection, into intuition, or love. You can have clay or corn husks,

4:09 often used in folk traditions for grounding and natural energy, and biodegradable poppets used for spells that are meant to return the to the earth or release. With that being said, it's like doing a poppet and then you bury it for for whatever purpose that it is intended for. Now, you and I have both kind of researched a lot of things. Were you familiar with a pop poppet before we scheduled Patty On? Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, but anyone's watched Supernatural? Yeah, I learn a thing or two. Right.

4:54 I love that. Our traditional way to go is look at Supernatural. You'll see it all. That's how it started for us, you know. So it's kind of like in a way, yeah, uh yeah, you know, of course I knew what a poppet was for quite a while now. But nonetheless, it's always nice to kind of go over some be finer details, especially in our studies, because there's always things I think that we can learn about, even some intricate knowledge that we have. You know, obviously, being a Christian, I study the Bible regularly, but I'm still learning a lot of things that I've already read through before vulnerable times. And the same thing happens in you know, really any faith, any craft and practice, or anything really studying, and so it's the same with the topics of going through the studies.

5:46 Reading some of this stuff, I was like, oh, I don't recall that being associated with the poppet making, but you know, nonetheless it is, and it is in a way many ways very similar to a koodoo doll wh're just earlier I said, how good doooo do There's a very big difference between Hollywood woodoo doll and a real boodoo doll, right, because a Hollywood voodoo doll is always like poke poke, stab, stab, and the same thing happens to the person, right right, not quite how that works. You can't just rip its head off and then the person's head from slide off of their shoulders, right. I mean, they do have those voodoo dolls with the pins and stuff. But yeah, you're not going to get the same effect in Hollywood. Oh well, and that's that's the thing too, is like there are similarities between a voodoo doll, whether it's the kind that we bought compared to the ones where you stick the pins in to a poppet.

6:40 But poppits are meant solely more for. Uh, magical work or spiritual work, where a voodoo doll is more to sometimes affect a person depending on the voodoo doll you're using. Yeah, I think the most part, you know, one thing you also so you mentioned in a number of different things obviously use within the craft of poppet puppets, but some other things also include, which you know probably is kind of important. You can include part of the person as well, hair males, things like that to help create that link between the poppet and the person associated with it.

7:26 And you can actually create poppets for yourself also kind of like little good luck charms and manifest or put intention into it to manifest some sort of health, the good luck for charity, you know, towards yourself. I don't know how often people do that. In particular, I think it's you know, create a poppet for somebody, but nonetheless right, yeah. Well, but again the same thing with voodoo dolls. And it's not too a lot of times with voodoo dolls, least in the Hollywood standard. You're not you're not putting hair or nails or something of a personal nature in a food all to help, more to harm. But when you look back at the Voodoo culture, in voodoo dolls in particular, it was not meant for black magic, much like a lot of things are. It's not meant for the negative. It's meant for the positive, right.

8:26 And I think that's the biggest uh misunderstanding when it comes to really anything that we talk about. When you think about it, because Hollywood is obviously so fast in its broadcast, I would say it's been neuromatized, so much advertized. It's created false falsities about a lot of these different practices, even fates and you know, religions, et cetera. Because it's all you know, it's all entertainment. It's all it's for Hollywood. That is the right. Obviously, I think, how do we used for some good? But in most cases they don't. They just do it for fun.

9:07 I mean, at least brings the stuff to the forefront of people's minds. But yeah, there's there's so much like prime example, like haunting in Connecticut. We had the opportunity to meet the woman that went through that haunting and when I had kind of spoken to her, I think you were were somewhere else when we were at Scarefest. She's like, yeah, a lot of that was Hollywood. We did not go through as much of the drama that was in that movie as was originally the story.

9:49 Disappointing for people like us, was this a lot? Well? Yeah, us being in the paranoral community, we want to believe that, Hey, all of the stuff that's happening happening in the movies is happening in real life and in reality it's like prime example, like I don't remember if you remember the scene of when they were in the past and this medium was having ectoplasm come out of his mouth and then came back in. I'm like, that would be awesome but scary all at the same time. So is that real? I'm guessing probably not, but yeah.

10:30 You know, I don't know. I mean, obviously there's spirit photos, ghost photos that be used during the medium. Yeah, practices, Uh, and actoplasm is one of those things that is I don't it's not scientifically, I mean, nothing's obviously scientific. Very few things are scientific equipment, yeah, in this world in terms of the paranormal and ghosts existence. But actoplasm is one of those things that have been studied quite a bit. Actually, And despite the fact that there's no hard evidence because you can't simply replicate actoplasm, there is still evidence of actoplasm almost like this, I mean, most people of you, if you ever felt it, or you're trap wondering if you love about it, it's typically walking through like a thick, almost spider web type thing invisible to them. You know, you feel it like a spider web on your skin as it brushes past you.

11:29 That's what most people kind of associate ecopasm with. Uh, there's a good chance to actually that you and I even saw acoplasm and caught it on camera at one point when we were walking through the woods. It was Intogo Lake carrying down Cleveland the fog. Yeah, love the thing, and we were talking. We were talking to what was considered a ray what many people thought was a raye, and they were we were getting some pretty crazy things on our EVPs a lot of darkness, but we are the photos while we're walking and all the photos are clear except for one, and there's this really bright green mist just hovering over the ground in near us. It was wild. It was weird, like of all things, first of all, to show up bright green, and typically you think ectoplasm, green, blue, those type of colors I usually think of right in the movie. So but yeah, you know, that was something that was I mean, maybe it wasn't ectoplasm, but it was interesting nonetheless, and it could have been, you know, it also could have just been some like I don't know, soild flog from pollution or something.

12:37 Who knows, right, I just wanted to bring up if you're listening to us or watching US live, Patty is running behind. She will be on shortly, I hoping within the next ten or so minutes she'll be on. So I just wanted to set that reminder something that I had. I don't know if I sent you this picture, but I had taken pictures. When I was doing Postmaster in Nebraska, and I saw this. It looked like a spider web with my physical eye, but when I took the picture there was nothing there so it's one of those things where sometimes you can catch it with a photo, sometimes you catch with your eye.

13:27 And when you're catching with your eye, kind of like with the stuff we're talking about with haunted dolls and poppets, it's your experience compared to evidence. So something to really consider when you're doing an investigation is, yes, you can include personal experiences, but that is not evidence, I. Mean, and the primary reason for that is because being humans, we are very suggest subjected to some things. Right. You know, our minds are crazy strong. You know, they're capable of helping us or making us see things that aren't really there, whether you know, whether it's that we ourselves think them into existence or you know, you have some sort of mental health disorder. Our minds are capable of seeing things that simply aren't real and trying to discern what is reel isn't real, especially in this field when they're not capturing it on you know, on on video, on photos or be a EVP or whatever or at you you know, It's that's why we tend to be careful about using personal experiences as factual evidence, because you really can't prove the personal experience. You would say Look, this is what I what I learned, is what I saw, what I what I felt, what I heard, et cetera. But in and of itself, that's all it is. It's what you think you saw and whether you really saw it. We

15:01 can't really say it because we can't duplicate it, right, So we can't scientific and test it. Right. So here's a question for you, and I'm gonna ask this before and even after. Right now. Would you ever consider creating a pop it, even if it was just you're not putting intention into it to have as kind of a I guess pop. Yeah, Yeah, I mean yeah, I would for fun, You know, I wouldn't personally, I wouldn't make one obviously. Kind of kind of opposes my faith. All right, you know, I mean some of the things that you believe now compared to years ago sometimes contradict what a lot of people believe in Christianity.

15:50 Though. Yeah, yeah, I mean there is that, Yes, that's true. You know, you learn things, especially in this field. There's things that don't make sense, or at least I shouldn't say things that don't make sense. Scripturally, I think everything scripturally makes sense to me. But uh, you know, using for example, we're talking about ghosts right now, people will say that scripture doesn't prove the existence of ghosts. On the flip side, there are some passages that actually kind of do and not just kind of, but they actually do prove the existence of ghosts, and the rest is just opinionated. You know, whether or not you believe in them is up to you, right, But yeah, in terms of your question, of course, I would make a poppet for fun, right, Yeah, come on, let's see. You know, I find I am both curious and fascinated by all everything that we discussed. Non people share with us. That's why I'm here in this field, because I'm drawn to it.

16:53 Actually, so many questions and not enough answers on resta I would, but what I read, Oh, it's hand sewn with intention. I'm like, I haven't hand sown since I was in like high school, so I'd. Have to relearn that to do it. But I don't know if I could hands so it. I mean, putting intention into something is virtual, right an overthinker, I have obsessive compulsive disorder. I have intrusive thoughts. So whatever's going to that into that thing? I mean, that thing's coming out with Yeah, you know, a lot more negative than positive. It's not it's got its own mental disorder. By the time i'm it's like, why am I here? Why did you sow me? There's so much? What is it? One episode is Supernatural with the bear, the stuffed bear that comes to life and he's depressed and an alcoholic. Oh what is it all for? I forgot about that episode.

18:02 I love that, oh man, And so in a sense that that was that a poppet I mean kind I guess, yeah, the bear no. Because I don't. I mean, I mean, it could have been, depending on your belief of what a puppet's supposed to be or do. Yeah, I can't remember. I mean, I know it came to you know, obviously it came to life. But well, right, I mean not in the show obviously it wasn't. I'm just saying, right, But I mean, like the kid, because it all manifested, because the people are making wishes, wish it well, oh that's right, that's right, and all of the all the wishes started good but ended up bad. Right.

18:47 The kid wish was buried for the life, which was good, but the bear was basically created with depression and anxiety, and that was because the trickster who ended up being archangel Gabriel. Right, yes, yeah, I think it was good. I did it. Yeah, okay, good times with supernatural. Yeah. Well so. Literally though, that is intention, A wish is an intention. But yeah, he didn't hand so it. He didn't put all the different parts into it to.

19:29 Make it up popp it. He just wanted it to be alive. One thing that I find fascinating about the description that I came up with is that you can use clay or corn huss which I literally have a access to clay all the time, so I could incorporate that into a poppet. I take my mind. I'm like to dig into your backyard. I mean, my dog is I have a one foot frickin' hole. I don't remember if I told you that. You know that, but it's just funny for those of you who don't know. His wife owns a pottery business, so clearly she has the clay, not his backyard. That no, right, I can't just go and dig at myself. Unfortunately, he could.

20:20 I mean hard to get there, yeah, I mean I'd have to go to the river to find it. But that's one of the common questions that Shelley gets is, oh do you do you just go dig your own clay? And she's like, no, I buy powder and rehi. I mean but she could she could go get clay and then up sail it as organic. Well, people will eat that up. I mean, you're not wrong there to your table. So since we got a little bit of time yet, what what would you put into your poppet? If you were to make one? Rainbows and butterflies? Man, you know.

21:03 That's well, the rainbows aren't a physical thing that you can put in there. So that's an opinion. I mean unless you buy a prism, and in which case, yeah, you're not. You're not wrong. There there's ways around it. I really have no idea, to be honest, Like i'd have to sit here and not have the study tea things. I'd probably start with the color theory. Uh so I would probably choose a color that represents a certain emotion or a represents something that I want, like for the cloth or probably well I probably do both. So I probably definitely do the cloth, that's for sure. That'd be like the clothes it would wear, or if if I put clothes on it, or just you know, the fabric itself of the doll. That's something we're gonna have to ask, Patty.

21:53 Do you put clothes on a poppet? That's a new question. I don't know personally, I feel like you don't. I think the ones I've seen anyway, I know don't. But right, right, but yeah, you know. And then I would also create, because I would want this thing to represent. For me. I would probably make it to represent me. So I probably create a little heart to put in its chest, right, because that's kind of like the source of life in a way. And then outside of that, honestly, I would be focused on a lot of positive ingredients, anything that generates positive energy and the absorption of negative or the dispersion of negative, as well as items like iron that might help promote some good luck. Yeah, rabbit swoot, I mean he's rabbits floating forever. But I remember growing up he used to have them all the time on me, so sad. Now I was gonna say, you're wanting to kill poor innocent No, I wouldn't find one that's already been hit by a car and take hold on. It's just wawn shop but so messed up. Sorry, Oh, man.

23:16 Yeah, I mean, and that's I mean going through this book and trying to really choose what you put into your puppet. It is a huge responsibility. You know. You know you're you've got the intention, that's one thing, but you have to choose things that is going to be prosperous to your intentions, not negatively impacting. Them, like someone like myself here. I would probably put some Christian medallions in it, or objects, whether it's a cross or Pandict coin or something. I would say Benedict medallion, yeah, which I haven't thought about for years. I still have the one that we got, not originally but when we were kind of coming back to the paranormal. It's in one of my little this guy right here that you sent me to. Oh yeah, the cross from Sicily. Yeah, I still have that cross.

24:24 I have the cross from my grandma that's made out of wood, but that's huge. I wouldn't be able to put that in a pop out unless I made it really big. I've got tons of crystals. I would probably put crystals in mind, just because A I love crystals, and B most of them are for different intentions to which I didn't see anything in the description for crystals and whatever, just rbs and stuff like that. But I'm assuming you can put. I'd imagine you can put anything you want. Yeah, I know. Again, many questions to ask Patty when chickens on here are what are some of your other thoughts on puppets?

25:11 You know, I I was one of those who, initially, same with a good doll, same with any doll for that matter, had a negative view of them. I didn't quite understand it other than what Hollywood taught us, and of course cooling up when your child. Hollywood influence you, influences you a lot, at least most of us, it does well. And I do want to point out there is a huge difference between a haunted doll and a puppet. Not that a haunted doll cannot be a puppet in and of itself, but sometimes those kind of get intertwined.

25:53 To Yeah, sorry, I'm like, pause for a moment. Is there a noise over by by you somewhere? Yeah, I've got wind blowing him. Okay, I'm here sling out of my bro there's something whistling in your microphone? No, yeah, it's outside, So we're to have some whistling on the show. And our guest is here, so we're gonna bring her in. Hey guys, hey Patty, welcome, Thank you, thank you. How are you today? I am good. Been one of those run run, run run, but I like them that way, so it was good. Okay, I'm good. Good. You know it's I I agree. I like when it's busy. I mean it was a little faster. You know, you got stuff to do, he said of sitting at home. Yeah, you know. Well, welcome to poetry for so glad to have you on. We we've just kind of been talking basics on poppets, our own experiences with them, and how we view out there we go, you guys can see if you're watching YouTube period.

26:57 We have quite a few questions for you. You. I'm going to just start off right first and foremost usually we start off with like how do you get into it? And then that's gonna be our second question, because my first question, since you just showed all those, can you put clothing on a poppet? Sure you can. I mean if you want to it if because you want to tag lock something that makes it represent you. So like if if you always were suspenders, I would make something that looks like your little poppet had suspenders on like this one. This is the one necklace I'll always have on. So this is me. I'm not arty craftsy. You know, it's okay if you're not artie craftsy and still make a lovely poppet. I make a lot out of paper napkins because if you want to burn, you know, depends on what you want to do with them. But yeah, if if you want to have a closed or you can make it out of clothes, which is a very common way to do it.

27:54 Okay, all right, interesting, Now what first drew you specifically to dolls and poppits as part of your magical practice. I actually I have always been a doll girl. I think when I was in my mother's womb, I had a large doll collection behind me. For those who can see, I've got I haunted as regular dolls. If I turned my camera around, I'm stared at by hundreds of eyes, my my mostly Barbie, and every other kind of doll. So I've always been a doll collector, regular ones, haunted ones of everything. And when I the one thing and I live in kind of two different worlds. I live in the paranormal world, the Ghost of Ventures, Overnight and all that, and then I live in the magical, witchy, empowering, spiritual world. And what's the thing that brings them together is dolls. So on the new book doll Craft, I'm like, make it half about haunted dolls and half about poppits, and it was what literally it brought me together as how I am. So I think that's it. I'd like, what a poppet is is that it's sympathetic magic. It powers me. If I get a headache, I stick a needle in my doll's head and my headache goes away easy, sympathetic magic, what you stuck it with, what you put into it, all those little things. So I think I've just been a.

29:14 Doll girl, so similar to what most people think of as a voodoo doll. Well, yeah, but voodoo doll is a specific belief system, right right, and whatever it is. But it's a doll for magical purpose. Yeah. It is certainly not innately negative or anything negative. It's what you make with it absolutely scary, right Yeah. Now, I mean you've loved dolls your whole life, but was there a particular doll or experience that really made you say Okay, I need to write doll craft. I need to share this experience in tell people. I think. I think Bell, my girl Bell in the back in the burgundy dress, because she was a life changer for me. Things are dropping. So I've always been dolls.

30:08 I've always been kind of public and with what I'm doing. And there's this girl in Belgium who wrote me and she had seen me do a seance with Peggy the Doll. And it wasn't Ghost Adventures. It was a spinoff of Ghost Adventures. It was called Deadly Possessions when Zach Burst wanted to show off his collection and she saw me doing Peggy the Doll, who's given two people heart attacks, and you know they documented people sick. And she figured if I could handle Peggy the Doll, I could handle Bell. So she wrote me, got my permission. Bell had made her sick for three years, made her hair fall out, made her little kid sick unless you put it, and she wanted it to have a good home. Somebody knew how to do it. I'm like, sure, send it to me.

30:52 The doll was so powerful. This was years ago now and I had never even done a Facebook live before, never thought about it. But something, and it was a doll, said you have to put this on video of Facebook Live and like non boxing, which is a thing in itself, But and I didn't have that many followers at the time, and I still don't have that many. Fifty thousand people watched me up unlock open that doll as usually i'd read three hundred four hundred if now even be ooh, like a thousand people. It was the doll and I opened it up, this doll and this beautiful dolls so dark, and I'm like, I can't, I can't have this in my house. And I literally would not let the sun set until I banished the negative. I knew, I knew, I just knew there was a beautiful little spirit inside the doll. But I was, you know, because negative haunted dolls aren't fun. If positive haunted dolls are just as spooky and just as much fun. They walk around, they move things, they wink at you, they do everything you want a haunt a doll, but they won't drain your energy, make you sick, or make you beat people up. So I'm like, I'm like everybody, they're so popular. We know how popular dolls are, and haunted dolls more grown ups men women like us have these crazy doll collections. I'm like, somebody needs to know how to take care of it.

32:12 Because this doll made this woman sick and I'm sticking the herb rue in her hand to make your not make other people sick. And then this beautiful little spirit came out. I'm like, nobody's really done a guide like this, And again I wanted to bring I didn't want it just about haunted doll's care and feeding, because a lot of magic is involved. I go, well, other than just have it how to have a good positive haunted doll, what if we add the puppets to it so people can have their doll for love or health or money or clarity or focus or a nice shadow work doll and made out of anything clay, this, that paper, cement, dirt, mud, seed, paper.

32:55 So I think it was the bell being such an influence on me and seeing what it had done to this woman that I just need to have people an easy guidebook if they are interested in this, have a real easy how to Okay. Now, in the book, you break down different types of puppets, you know, classic biodegradable food based crafty et cetera. Can you walk us through a few of those and why someone might choose any or one or the other. Yeah, Well, one of the twends on what you're doing it. If you again, depending on the attributes of what you want.

33:37 If you want to like get rid of old stuff and get rid of old negativity, you might want to burn it or bury it, or maybe you want to plant new seeds and build something. You might want to plant it, which is slightly different than burying it those same process. Maybe you want to make something and you want to send it out onto stream water in motion into the river. So for that you want it to be really biodegradable. Again, there's where the as organic as you can a little piece of paper that's got biodegradable herbs in it. Maybe you want something for strength, to make it strong. Maybe you want to make that out of clay or something strong. Maybe you know, I think the creativity has to be both a combination of what you're going to do with it or you want to keep it. If you want it cute and pretty to guard your home, you want to make a home guardian, make a cute little doll that'll sit by your front door and guard your home. You want to make a protection poppet and you want to stick it in a shoe box under your bed for whatever, that's great. But the more thought, the more attributes you put into it, the better it is. But anything can be anything.

34:52 Does that make sense? I hope you want flexibility like a streaming puppet. Do you want a traditional a corn dolly? A corn dolly because you want tradition there because it's been how they did in the Appalachian Mountains, how they did it in Old England. If you want a little bit of tradition and clarity and folklore into it. Well, it's funny you say that because in some of the research I saw that you can put clay into it. And my wife's a potter, so I have access to clay, you know, all the time. So jokingly, as you know, if I made a poppet, I could put clay into it. And I mean I'm kind of serious too, like if I wanted to do a poppet, I at least have.

35:35 That as an abundance to use. Yeah, that's great, And clay is great because think about what are the attributes to clay. It's moldable, it's strong, it's and if you want attributes like that into your puppet, it's it's a perfect thing to use. I use soil if you want to add soil for some ground into things you want things to do a little bit of everything, Okay, cool? So I mean and kind of spinning off of that, like when somebody actually sits down to create a poppet, what are some key ingredients of correspondence they could be thinking about and how do they go about finding information?

36:20 Maybe that would help them to understand some of the ingredients they could use, like thicking herbs, colors, fabrics or like tag blogs. You could use whatever tradition. Oh, pink is love. Pink is love like romantic love. Red, Oh that's passion, like romantic that kind of passion. Blue can be healing green or gold can be money. So both what the traditional colors mean while you're doing candlework, But more importantly is kind of what it means to you, what it means if if purple means money to you and you want a money papp it, I would make it out of purple, or you know, funny old money sewn together, monopoly money, shred it up or something I do like to add a lot of because it's really easy in this day and age to look up what attribute. Oh cinnamon, it's going to bring some fire into it. Good for passion, good for protection. Ooh, rosemary is very protective or basis.

37:20 And I'm just talking simple stuff you find in your kitchen. Let alone at any apothecary, adding some dirt, adding some soil. If you work in graveyard dirt, graveyard dirt is beautiful, be very careful. Again, it's sacred ground. And if it freaks you out, don't do it. But I always give offerings when I go to dury. Say, if I'm going to make a protection poppet, I'm going to go to the grave of maybe a decor decorated soldier or a police person who did all these great works, ask their permission of the dead. I could just have a spoon leave them gets put that under my popfet. It's a love poppet. Find the couple that was married fifty happily married fifty year, ask them if you get a little bit of their dirt for that grounding. Because your doll, your puppet really has in a sense, three bodies you want to create. It's got its physical body, which is the material doll itself, and there's make it out of anything.

38:14 It has the astral body, which is literally the energetic form that you're awakening into it, and then the symbolic body, which is its identity, its purpose. You are for healing, you are for shadow work, you are for money, you are for road opener. So if you could combine all those things and where you have, it's going to be that much stronger honoring all those three of the bodies literally the physical of the astral and the symbolic. Awesome. Yeah. So again, it's been used forever. You guys Egypt, Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome, Celtic Appalachian tradition, Japanese dolls. Do it if you do want to do like, why would I make it out of it? Cloth puppets are really good. If it's you're doing some for emotional long it's long lasting. You want something long lasting, Something soft is really good. Maybe you want to use wax because it's transformable, you can move it around. It's excellent for breaking habits, or you want to melt away negativity. You might want to end up melting the poppet. Maybe you want clay for grounding. You want something really grounding, because clay is grounding. That's the attribute. It's stable. It's ideal for protection or long term work that you're doing. Maybe you want something really traditional, make it out of corn hust go to the do it from cornhouse. Maybe you want to make it out of pure paper again because you want something quick. You want something potent. You want great for urgent spells going and I want to burn

39:46 those barriers. Put it into the water safely, stick or root poppets. You want something really natural. And again it's there's not a right or wrong, but what's right or wrong to you is what's right or what feels best. Maybe you want some strong for bones and you want to put some eggshells into it. We just talked about that in the class I just finished like five minutes ago. So herbs are going to give you the attributes of those herbs, crystals and stones, because they're all living things, living spirits, oils. Give them some scent you want to use. Actually, it's nice to use all your senses. Snite. You want to look like what you wanted to do. Sound. Maybe it's it's soft, you put a little bell in it, you heat, you feel it when it sits down, it's heavy, it's light smell. You're going to get that from the herbs or oils you use. Touch how it feels soft.

40:39 I'm going to take a nice eyepillow poppet, which we just talked about in class as well, a nice soft satiny with a lot of camameal and lavender in it. Just the more creative you can be is good. Also, you want things again, if you want to keep layering it on I there's kind of a triad you want to use. You want something to stabilize it, you want something to trans the transformer, and you want the messenger. Stabilizer would be the salt you're putting into it, or the soil like I just talked about, or some iron or the stones you put into it. The transformer, it'd be the herbs, the crystals that are aligned with the goal that you're creating. The messenger is the taglock, the signature, the handwriting, and again, and taglocks are really important because that's personal. Taglocks are what people get freaked out about it because that's some of your hair, that's some of your fingernail clippings, but that literally has your DNA that's taglocking it. To you. If you don't have that stuff, your signature, your breath. Your breath literally is your life force.

41:45 It's your pneuma, it's your prana. The moisture in your breath is your free will. You're taglocking it just putting your words and your breath into it. So again, if you could have the messenger, is that taglock, This is where the messenger is going to So many as simple or as many layers as you want. Makes sense. Yeah, but the taglocks really are the energy bread, the energy bridge to what you're doing. So if you're making a taglock for a health healing for Grandma on the other side, and you could have a little piece of her old, you know, house coat that she used to wear that she was giving to go gold, well, that would be great.

42:26 Okay. Now for beginners, if someone is curious about poppet magic but nervous about quote unquote opening doors. What's a simple safe practice they can try. You're only going to open the doors that you ask for. And again that's why I don't do negative puppet. It's I don't want to send anybody evil or curses or hexes, not because good or bad heaven her hell, it's because you live in the world, you create. So you want to try a nice I'm going to make a health and happiness or a love popfit for myself, or I get a new career it for myself. It's all in your tension. Do it with love, do it with light.

43:06 Work within your belief system. If you're nature based, your work with calling the tree, spirits, and you work with angels, work with your angels, you work with fairies. Work with your fairies. You have Christian, work with Jesus. Work within your belief system. Jesus will love the poppet. You know. I'm sorry they may not tell you that in church. In Christ put a little cross on it. That's your belief system, a star of David and all. It only be as powerful as you make it. And again, you don't put negative If you need to bind, you can bind them. I'm a clear binder. You want to tie up those arms of somebody who's trying to harm you or your family. You don't want to send them evil, but you want. You cannot hurt me. You cannot hurt my family, my job, my career, my pets. But you're not sending them negative stuff. So you're not there's no negative kickback to it. You're not going to open up any doors, not like you're ooh sitting around a Ouiji board, which again I think is completely safe depending on what you say and you set your intention in the beginning.

44:08 I set up sacred space, whatever it is, whether that means to you, say a little prayer, lighting a little candle, light some incense, say a chant, you call the corners air, fire, water and earth. Do an LBRP work within your belief system. Okay, So moving on to a little bit I know where, kind of short overall, but talking about haunted dolls from your perspective or actually different question. A lot of people are genuinely scared of haunted dolls. Can you tell us some the common misconceptions that you'd love to clear up about haunted dolls that maybe would help people not be so scared or whether they should be scared.

44:50 Well, again, if you go visit Annabel too often, or Peggy, Peggy, the doll that I did the seance with, he blunks to Zach begins Now he doesn't want any spirits removed or anything like that. Heaven, but she literally curses at me when I walk in. She's got a spirit box there and you walk in, you know every day the war Hi, Peggy, you look so beautiful today it's extrewer Okay, bye bye. And not too long ago, on this last tour of Annabelle, I was almost touring with her because all these conventions I was doing, and this one I literally the only thing that divided the vendor floor where I had my books and the Warren complete a cult museum, including annabel was a curtain, was a thin little invention.

45:43 The energy was bombarding me. I'm like, nobody's even going to come talk to me because it feels so icky over here. But I put up warding. I put up protection, and I put up so much protection I didn't feel it. It was like a cement wall of energy. You don't need a cement wall, you have energy to do it. So people were as fine. I put up so much protection I was able to Later that night when they opened those curtains up, I was dancing with Annabelle safely. On her tour. She travels with a priest. And last time, again, sometimes I'm affected by her more than others. But again, before you go in set a protection, nothing can bother me.

46:27 You cannot bother me after where I hadn't set up my protection. So it was so cute. Father Bob. He knows I'm a witch, he knows I'm a pagan. I'm like, and everybody was doing blessings afterwards, I'm like, I would love a blessing from you, Father Bob. He's like, almost apologetically, is so, kiddie goes, it's going to be a Catholic blessing? Is that a like? I would want nothing else from you? I wonder, Yeah, whatever you're coming from, yeah. That's what I want. But again, you should be cautious. I don't like the word afraid. Fear is the word that takes away your power, but fear change your idea of fear is inspiration and challenge and all that. But if you're going to go see I don't think anybody should have a negative haunted doll in their home. I don't think you should most of the time, keep your haunted dolls, even the good ones, in your bedroom when you go to sleep, put them in any other room of the house. Because it is a real spirit. It is a real spirit. That's why a negative haunted doll can make you sick, can make drain your energy can cause arguing and fighting and illness and not stuff. Again, that's why I made the book a positive haunted doll, to make sure you find one by one. Now, I didn't number one. I didn't want people getting ripped off by the fake sellers on Ebays. Not saying they're all fake by any means. There's real sellers. But if one seller's had nine hundred and twelve these beautifully long crafted stories about the dots, you know, be careful read the reviews.

47:59 But I think you can find as good of ones are better in your local thrift store. So I just wanted it. If everybody wants to have one, you want to have a positive one that doesn't make you sick or drain your energy, or make you sleepy or make you fight with people. And again, they're still just as spooky. They're still just as spooky. There nobody's upstairs, but somebody's walking upstairs, and it sounds like it's Bell, or is it's whoever, it's Salem. It's all my different dolls, tell by your animals and little children, because nobody knows if you're When Bell was first here, my animals would have nothing to do with her. Even when I first banished the negative she had because there's residual energy. It has to go away. Like say you book yummy chocolate chip cookies, but somebody ate them. All the cookies still smell for a while. You stepped in dog poop. Your shoes are clean, but it still smells for a while. To look at small children, my dog and cat avoided, and then all of a sudden they love her. They like to live by her. So check stuff like that, How do you feel are you avoiding that area? I had one. I will not have a negative haunted doll. All of a sudden, I love my little office, all my dolls looking at me, all my books. All of a sudden I noticed I was not spending any time in my office. I would take my laptop outside. I'm like, what isn't I look around and I had this little doll. She looked kind of like a voodoo doll, but she was a statue, and it was a gift from one of my friends, like one of my rockstar friends. And I'm like, oh,

49:29 it's you. You've gone bad. You've taken on a spirit that wasn't here. So me, being me, I didn't want to banish. I just called Zach Megan's. I went, hey, Zach, this is too dark for my house. Do you want it going to Vegas tomorrow? It started acting up that night. But it's in the perfect place, not where somebody lives or raises a family or has roommates, goes to sleep at night, where you're vulnerable. It's in a perfect place in his museum. But so that's why I decided to make the book, because you do have to be careful old haunted dolls. Again, if you walk into somebody's house and they have a negative haunted doll and you don't want it, and they don't have a pint salt, or with a glass case, or all those crazy things we do. Again, say you cannot bother me. Speak it out loud whenever possible.

50:14 You say it in your head, things can still hear. But when you say it out loud again, your breath is involved, your life or us. And then when you leave, go you stay here. I leave, just like when you're on a paranormal investigation. Your intent is everything, and you know in the name of whatever you believe, in the name of God and the name of your cat, and the name of your you know. Designer handbag doesn't matter your intent, your purpose. Right now, that's interesting that you bring that up. Eric had found a mask that he really was sure it was haunted, and you know it can be anything. So how do you personally protect yourself when working with haunted objects?

51:00 You know, from start to finish, what's your spiritual hygiene? My spiritual hygiene is again work within your belief system. But my spiritual hygiene, and I work within every belief system is My favorite schigul or symbol is the helm of Awe. It's that it's an eight sided cross, a little stickers. You won't be able to see it anybody. I know most of you are not visual. It's an eight sided cross and it's got the little half circles in three lines. This is not sacred geometry. I wear medallions of it. I literally have this under my welcome mud. It keeps out bad spirits and burglars. To me, it's like an atomic bomb that breaks up negative energy. But and so this is what I would put this under a doll whatever that needs. It's super protection. It's to me is for me personally, my best protection out there.

51:56 But cascaria powder, salt, sigital symbols of every kind. There's lots of herbs. Again, ru is going to pull away negativity. Okay, okay. And for folks who are like who feel called to go deeper into this episode in particular and what you're sharing with us, what's the best way to work through dollcraft? Is it something going straight through it? Is it maybe taking a little bit at a time, doing separate chapters and chunks. I would say, how if people just like, in all my magic is work, how you work? If you're just like I'm going to use it at a reference? What do I need to know to day do that? Like the biblio bouncy whatever you call it. It's like, oh no, I need a specific poppet. So I'm going to look at the different kind of puppets. I mean, I'm a reader, So I would say, read the whole thing and then see where you're drawn. If you don't know what you want.

52:53 But if you're sitting here going I want to haunt a doll, now read that section. First. I want to know how to buy it. Purchase it, call one in, you can call in a spirit to do it. People makes it so much mystery? Uh? And then or had Haunted all tea party. Some people why want to completely skip that chapter, but a lot of people don't. I was supposed to do one last week, a Haunted all tea party at the Lizzie Borden House, but we got snowed out or. What I think. That's the biggest thing is is so many people have been freaked out by Hollywood. Uh you know, the dramatization of haunted dolls. Not that they cannot be scary, because sometimes just regular dolls can be scary, but not all dolls are necessarily having a negative and any attached to them.

53:45 Most aren't most, most aren't most most people. Most ghosts are good. I mean TV. I'm sorry, media and I'm part of it makes it look bad. You go to the insane asylum, you go to the prison, the boys' school, and you don't go to the fun hotel where the ghosts are hanging from the best days at the chandelier's best days of their life. So, because that's what you want, you want the spooky and dark stuff, you don't make movies about the good haunted dolls. But most ghosts are good, Like most people. You go to a ball game, go to a mall, most people are there good. You might find a rare serial killer or a bad person, but most people are good. Most spirits are good. And if you're a disembodied spirit and you decide you want a vessel, you don't need a vessel. But if you decide you want a vessel, you can go to a jar of water, or you can go something with eyes and a doll with eyes and nose and a mouth, so you can go to a doll. But most of those are good.

54:45 They most of them are good. They really right. Well, we are getting close to the end, so I do want to ask you know, where can people find doll Crafts connect with you, find your other works, your podcast, The MIC's all yours. My book Old World Magic, Pattinegri dot com p A T t I n A g r I. You can get everything you can get to Dollcraft. Dollcraft is It's Llewellyn so it's available everywhere metaphysical stores, regular bookstores, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, everywhere goll Craft or on my website. You can get signed copies. My other book, Old World Magic for the Modern World, which is still my baby, my passion book, How to Bring Magic into every part of your life. It's even smaller. It's easy fast read, like why do you put salt in your toilet?

55:32 What? Why do you stew your coffee? This way? It's still my passion book, but you can get fair. You can get to my podcast The Witching Hour. You can get to my schedule of all the places I travel everywhere constantly. You can get to tons of free videos on my YouTube. You can find my school where I teach this stuff. Just tonight I taught a complete poppet class an hour and a half. Poppet class. I teach on a doll classes. I teach spell crash. I see mediumship development for twenty dollars a class or less. I wanted so when I saw celebrity mediums teaching sparting thousands of dollars, I want and I want to be affordable my podcast. You can get to pair flix my network everywhere Pattiegree dot com.

56:15 Follow me on social media please Patty Pattiegree Psychic Medium on Facebook, Patty dot Negre on Instagram, Patty Neegri everywhere else. That just helps because it's our world and that's it. Or see me right here with you guys. Well, thank you so much for being on. I know we had to bring you on late today, so we'll definitely have to get you on to talk more about all Craft. And the other book as well well. But until then we will let you go and thank you so much for being on Pair True three born. Thank you. Thank you for the good work you guys are doing. That means a lot. This is great. I love your show, I love what you do, so thank you. Awesome, Thank you all right, folks. That is Patton Agree.

57:02 So if you're looking to find her book, make sure that you check her out. A lot of great stuff going on here at Paratruth. Eric, If do you have any final thoughts before we head out? Do you know, no final thoughts, no housekeeping. You know we're really close to Christmas, so you know that special Christmas episode is coming up in two weeks to look forward to that. Otherwise, just have. It the week, all right, folks, until next week where you'll find us the same time, same channel. My name is Justin and I'm Eric. He is